Horses & Helicopters
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: UK
Horses & Helicopters
Just found this on the BBC website,
Startled horse kills rider
--------------------------------
An inquiry is under way after a female horse rider was killed after her horse was reportedly startled by a low-flying helicopter.
Melanie Dodds, 37, who has two children, suffered fatal head injuries when her horse collided with two cars on the A48 near Caerwent south Wales.
Police are investigating the tragedy, which took place on the A48 near Caerwent, south Wales, shortly before 1000 GMT on Wednesday morning.
Ms Dodds was out riding with a friend on a bridle path next to the road near the Wentwood Inn Public House when it is believed the helicopter flew over.
"It was virtually taking off the chimney pots and that spooked the horse which sent it out into the middle of the road with its rider," said eyewitness Stephen Davies, 47.
Ms Dodds, from Caerwent, was taken by ambulance to the Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport, where she was pronounced dead.
A neighbour said she was "a lovely woman with two teenage children".
"She is a keen horsewoman and rides out of the local stables - no one can believe this has happened."
The incident involved two vehicles, a Mazda 323 and a Renault Safrane - the drivers were not injured.
The horse, a Welsh cob called Ed, was put down at the scene because it was seriously injured.
A spokeswoman for Gwent Police confirmed a helicopter was in the vicinity of the incident, but said the investigation was still ongoing.
Officers want to speak to anyone who can offer any information about the incident, and have asked people to contact 01633 838111 and ask for the road policing unit.
End of article.
A tragic event, my condolences to the family and friends of the woman invovled. We had an incident like this near where I live a few years ago, in which an old diesel bus had scared a horse with similar tragic effects.
It is so very frustrating when the press immeadiately jump on the heli-bashing band-wagon. Horse's are generally timid creatures that can be easily frightened ~ by any loud/sudden noise, not just helicopters.
CRAN
Startled horse kills rider
--------------------------------
An inquiry is under way after a female horse rider was killed after her horse was reportedly startled by a low-flying helicopter.
Melanie Dodds, 37, who has two children, suffered fatal head injuries when her horse collided with two cars on the A48 near Caerwent south Wales.
Police are investigating the tragedy, which took place on the A48 near Caerwent, south Wales, shortly before 1000 GMT on Wednesday morning.
Ms Dodds was out riding with a friend on a bridle path next to the road near the Wentwood Inn Public House when it is believed the helicopter flew over.
"It was virtually taking off the chimney pots and that spooked the horse which sent it out into the middle of the road with its rider," said eyewitness Stephen Davies, 47.
Ms Dodds, from Caerwent, was taken by ambulance to the Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport, where she was pronounced dead.
A neighbour said she was "a lovely woman with two teenage children".
"She is a keen horsewoman and rides out of the local stables - no one can believe this has happened."
The incident involved two vehicles, a Mazda 323 and a Renault Safrane - the drivers were not injured.
The horse, a Welsh cob called Ed, was put down at the scene because it was seriously injured.
A spokeswoman for Gwent Police confirmed a helicopter was in the vicinity of the incident, but said the investigation was still ongoing.
Officers want to speak to anyone who can offer any information about the incident, and have asked people to contact 01633 838111 and ask for the road policing unit.
End of article.
A tragic event, my condolences to the family and friends of the woman invovled. We had an incident like this near where I live a few years ago, in which an old diesel bus had scared a horse with similar tragic effects.
It is so very frustrating when the press immeadiately jump on the heli-bashing band-wagon. Horse's are generally timid creatures that can be easily frightened ~ by any loud/sudden noise, not just helicopters.
CRAN
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Gaithersburg, MD
I don't know what to say...
This is a tragedy. Condolenses to the family.
I don't really know how to feel about this one. In my logical mind, this seems like an "Act of God" incident. There is danger in anything you do. A badger could have startled the horse just as easily with the same results. (Do you have badgers in the U.K?) How can you definitively say the helicopter was the sole cause for this disturbance? How do you know that a bee sting didn't cause this accident? You can't, but when you are in anguish over the loss of a loved one it is natural to assign blame.
Even if there was no doubt that the helicopter was solely responsible for the disturbance, what does that mean? Just like diving or any other sport, you assume a certain level of responsibility for the associated risk with that sport. Divers with years of experience die each year. I'm not sure why this is different. If you are riding next to a local road, wouldn't you expect that your mount might be distrubed by automobiles? Why is a helicopter different? Perhaps Flying Lawyer can offer some clarity?
(I don't mean to come across as insensitive, but this is a quandry)
I don't really know how to feel about this one. In my logical mind, this seems like an "Act of God" incident. There is danger in anything you do. A badger could have startled the horse just as easily with the same results. (Do you have badgers in the U.K?) How can you definitively say the helicopter was the sole cause for this disturbance? How do you know that a bee sting didn't cause this accident? You can't, but when you are in anguish over the loss of a loved one it is natural to assign blame.
Even if there was no doubt that the helicopter was solely responsible for the disturbance, what does that mean? Just like diving or any other sport, you assume a certain level of responsibility for the associated risk with that sport. Divers with years of experience die each year. I'm not sure why this is different. If you are riding next to a local road, wouldn't you expect that your mount might be distrubed by automobiles? Why is a helicopter different? Perhaps Flying Lawyer can offer some clarity?
(I don't mean to come across as insensitive, but this is a quandry)
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: LEAX, Spain
CRAN
You say:
"It is so very frustrating when the press immeadiately jump on the heli-bashing band-wagon."
What bandwagon?
Looks like a straight report of the facts as they appear, including the claims being made by those directly involved, to me. Hope you're not suggesting such events should not be reported because a helicopter might be involved?
Let's keep it objective ladies and gents.
Dan
"It is so very frustrating when the press immeadiately jump on the heli-bashing band-wagon."
What bandwagon?
Looks like a straight report of the facts as they appear, including the claims being made by those directly involved, to me. Hope you're not suggesting such events should not be reported because a helicopter might be involved?
Let's keep it objective ladies and gents.
Dan
Joined: Apr 2000
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From: EGDC
A very sad occurrence but horseriding is statistically the most dangerous sport in the UK with the greatest number of deaths and serious injuries. As Cran said , it doesn't take a helicopter to startle a horse.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
There was a case in Oz many years ago where a woman was thrown from her horse while riding along a beach. She claimed that the horse was startled by a low-flying air force Huey, and she successfully sued the air force.
The fact that she was riding naked may have had something to do with how close the huey got!
The fact that she was riding naked may have had something to do with how close the huey got!
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Why can nothing be an accident these days?
Everything has to have a causal factor to which, a cynic might assume, compensation is related...
The fact that every day in the rush hour I'm confronted by horses being ridden on the road (in the dawn light) causing traffic queues and dangerous overtaking seems to be ignored yet immediately it's assumed that the helicopter was the sole factor - surely, if it's proved to be a factor - it cannot be the sole cause?
Apologies if this seems a little uncaring so soon afterwards.
Everything has to have a causal factor to which, a cynic might assume, compensation is related...
The fact that every day in the rush hour I'm confronted by horses being ridden on the road (in the dawn light) causing traffic queues and dangerous overtaking seems to be ignored yet immediately it's assumed that the helicopter was the sole factor - surely, if it's proved to be a factor - it cannot be the sole cause?
Apologies if this seems a little uncaring so soon afterwards.
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: North of the Border
Riding is dangerous and a spooked horse is a risk any rider knowly takes everytime they jump on.
But in this day and age of litigation, it would be wise to make sure that as pilots we are above 500 foot agl in line with the law (unless you have a dispensation for military/police/EMS/SAR etc)
But in this day and age of litigation, it would be wise to make sure that as pilots we are above 500 foot agl in line with the law (unless you have a dispensation for military/police/EMS/SAR etc)
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,113
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From: UK
The Lincolnshire and Nottinghamshire Air Ambulance attended 59 horse riding incidents in 2002. (7% of all callouts for the year)
Such incidents require extreme caution in approach due the potential for generating more casualties.
Also much of the operating area is rural; there are hundreds of bridle- ways and riding schools in the area. The potential to spook horses, when landing on any callout, is high.
Crashondeck; air ambulances in the UK have no exemption from the 500ft (5-1-e) rule.
Such incidents require extreme caution in approach due the potential for generating more casualties.
Also much of the operating area is rural; there are hundreds of bridle- ways and riding schools in the area. The potential to spook horses, when landing on any callout, is high.
Crashondeck; air ambulances in the UK have no exemption from the 500ft (5-1-e) rule.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Great South East, tired and retired
If the accident had been caused by a noisy truck or a mororbike, nothing would have been said, because of the zero chance of catching the "responsible" person. It would have been just another horse riding accident.
But because a helicopter can be fairly easily singled out, the chance of "getting revenge" is worth going to a lawyer. I was once sued by a jockey who fell during training. He couldn't identify the type or colour of helicopter ("the fog was too thick" - err... we don't fly in fog!!) and we weren't within a bull's roar of his alleged position, but it turned into a new BMW for some lawyer and some pain for our insurers. He was just a time-expired fat old jockey, who fell from a nag, knew his washed-up career was finally over, decided to blame it on somebody else, and a passing helicopter was a good enough target.
But because a helicopter can be fairly easily singled out, the chance of "getting revenge" is worth going to a lawyer. I was once sued by a jockey who fell during training. He couldn't identify the type or colour of helicopter ("the fog was too thick" - err... we don't fly in fog!!) and we weren't within a bull's roar of his alleged position, but it turned into a new BMW for some lawyer and some pain for our insurers. He was just a time-expired fat old jockey, who fell from a nag, knew his washed-up career was finally over, decided to blame it on somebody else, and a passing helicopter was a good enough target.
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: Gold Coast, Australia
Some years back, the great "get rich quick" was to have an ostrich farm; resale value of the birds seemed to increase daily, almost as quickly as they would get spooked by passing helicopters 
Attempts by the Helicopter Association of Australia through meetings with their representative body came up with various solutions, eg dayglo panels in the paddocks, etc., etc. None of the ostrich owners were interested in helping, but nearly all were very interested in blaming helicopters overflying legally, for their investments spooking and running into fencing. Those long necks are inclined to snap easily under such circumstances, leading to 6 figure losses.
The ultimate one eyed stupidity was the verbal attack I got after landing at Bacchus Marsh aerodrome. Parked as directed, and after shut down was told in no uncertain terms that I had spooked a flock of ostrich. The bl**dy farm was on the airfield, behind a hangar, but the attempt to blame the helicopter was quite serious.
Revenge is sweet, the bottom fell out of the market and they all became worthless
Attempts by the Helicopter Association of Australia through meetings with their representative body came up with various solutions, eg dayglo panels in the paddocks, etc., etc. None of the ostrich owners were interested in helping, but nearly all were very interested in blaming helicopters overflying legally, for their investments spooking and running into fencing. Those long necks are inclined to snap easily under such circumstances, leading to 6 figure losses.
The ultimate one eyed stupidity was the verbal attack I got after landing at Bacchus Marsh aerodrome. Parked as directed, and after shut down was told in no uncertain terms that I had spooked a flock of ostrich. The bl**dy farm was on the airfield, behind a hangar, but the attempt to blame the helicopter was quite serious.
Revenge is sweet, the bottom fell out of the market and they all became worthless
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: uk
Sawthe light
A welsh cob is a powerfull horse and I would be very impressed if any jockey could control a startled one. Regardless of heli type either a gazelle or a chinook, one flying
would be enough to startle any animal/person.
It was just unlucky that at the same time the heli flew overhead there were two cars on the same road and she hit them.
I don't want to trivialise this sad event, but surely the rider has failed to keep the horse under control.
It was virtually taking off the chimney pots
It was just unlucky that at the same time the heli flew overhead there were two cars on the same road and she hit them.
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Lincs.
This is linked through a thread here.
This occcurence is tragic. We can not get away from that fact. To blame the Heli for being a possible factor in this accident is wrong. Had the car drivers been driving at a speed or in a manner so as to give the horse plenty of room, should the rider lose control, would this accident happened?
More than likely not.
Whose to say that it wasnt the cars that spooked the horse in the first place.
Had the heli been the Air Ambulance would the blame be placed upon them? I guess not! Praise would have been showered for getting to the scene so quickly!
This occcurence is tragic. We can not get away from that fact. To blame the Heli for being a possible factor in this accident is wrong. Had the car drivers been driving at a speed or in a manner so as to give the horse plenty of room, should the rider lose control, would this accident happened?
More than likely not.
Whose to say that it wasnt the cars that spooked the horse in the first place.
Had the heli been the Air Ambulance would the blame be placed upon them? I guess not! Praise would have been showered for getting to the scene so quickly!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 245
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From: longwayplace
Two rotorheads good; four legs bad.
Surprise, surprise.
Welcome to yet another predictably blinkered thread. As if all had sworn some Masonic oath to defend, beyond reason, any of our helicopter brethren.
Quote:
“To blame the Heli for being a POSSIBLE factor in this accident is wrong”
What? Not even a little bit?? If I were a betting man and had to wager on causal factors, I’d bung a few euros on the copter.
Enough of the cult like fundamentalism and let us at least pretend to be open-minded.
Welcome to yet another predictably blinkered thread. As if all had sworn some Masonic oath to defend, beyond reason, any of our helicopter brethren.
Quote:
“To blame the Heli for being a POSSIBLE factor in this accident is wrong”
What? Not even a little bit?? If I were a betting man and had to wager on causal factors, I’d bung a few euros on the copter.
Enough of the cult like fundamentalism and let us at least pretend to be open-minded.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 7
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From: brighton
Unfortunately the outcome of this accident was very tragic and my feelings go out to the families involved. The actual cause of the accident is not yet known so we can only speculate and blame the helicopter, but as many have said horses are very unpredictable after all thay have their own minds and they decide what they want to do and when, anything could be the cause.
Ref Crashondeck- if the pilots were taking off from a helisite they were quite within their rites and as long as they did not overfly a riding school or the rider intentionally then how can we blame them.
The helicopter does get bad press and i would like to see more uses of such a diverse machine and better publicity.
Support British Civil Helicopters.
Ref Crashondeck- if the pilots were taking off from a helisite they were quite within their rites and as long as they did not overfly a riding school or the rider intentionally then how can we blame them.
The helicopter does get bad press and i would like to see more uses of such a diverse machine and better publicity.
Support British Civil Helicopters.
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 395
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From: Midlands
I have to say I find threads such as this one fascinating as they tend to end up with people adopting very polarised views.
The facts as I see them are as follows.
Horses are generally easy to spook, but some will be more easily upset than others. Conversely, not all will spook.
Helicopters do spook horses, but are by no means the only thing that have that effect.
Horses are very powerful creatures and once spooked riders are hard pushed to calm their mounts and recover the situation.
Horse riders must accept the above facts and they have a responsibility to try and minimise the danger to themselves, just as others have a responsibility to try to avoid initiating the dangerous scenarios.
To clarify this, drivers are warned in the highway code to slow down near horses, give them plenty of room and avoid manoeuvers likely to startle the animal. Likewise, pilots have strict guidelines which they are required to adhere to in terms of the heights and clearances by which they need to be clear of objects.
If the pilot has adhered to their legal requirements and has taken reasonable steps to minimise risks to others (not just horses and horse riders!) then the blame cannot lie with the pilot.
There are a multitude of factors which may have contributed to this accident. This does not mean that any single factor has to be the ultimate cause. The factors include, position, speed, height and type of helicopter; the wellbeing, ability and experience of the rider; the size, age and disposition of the horse; the position, speed and standards of driving of the 2 vehicles involded; the road plan and road and weather conditions; This list is not complete and is not intended to be, I am just demonstrating the multitude of factors that may have contributed to this unfortunate incident.
At the moment there is too little information in my mind to identify what circumstance led to the tragic conclusion. I do know that my mind remains open in as much as there could be a lot for me to learn as a pilot, driver and bewildered spectator of the horse fraternity.
Regards
Obs cop
The facts as I see them are as follows.
Horses are generally easy to spook, but some will be more easily upset than others. Conversely, not all will spook.
Helicopters do spook horses, but are by no means the only thing that have that effect.
Horses are very powerful creatures and once spooked riders are hard pushed to calm their mounts and recover the situation.
Horse riders must accept the above facts and they have a responsibility to try and minimise the danger to themselves, just as others have a responsibility to try to avoid initiating the dangerous scenarios.
To clarify this, drivers are warned in the highway code to slow down near horses, give them plenty of room and avoid manoeuvers likely to startle the animal. Likewise, pilots have strict guidelines which they are required to adhere to in terms of the heights and clearances by which they need to be clear of objects.
If the pilot has adhered to their legal requirements and has taken reasonable steps to minimise risks to others (not just horses and horse riders!) then the blame cannot lie with the pilot.
There are a multitude of factors which may have contributed to this accident. This does not mean that any single factor has to be the ultimate cause. The factors include, position, speed, height and type of helicopter; the wellbeing, ability and experience of the rider; the size, age and disposition of the horse; the position, speed and standards of driving of the 2 vehicles involded; the road plan and road and weather conditions; This list is not complete and is not intended to be, I am just demonstrating the multitude of factors that may have contributed to this unfortunate incident.
At the moment there is too little information in my mind to identify what circumstance led to the tragic conclusion. I do know that my mind remains open in as much as there could be a lot for me to learn as a pilot, driver and bewildered spectator of the horse fraternity.
Regards
Obs cop
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1
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From: United States
This is really an interesting thread. I will admit, I am not a pilot. I am a horse owner. I don't live in England, rather I live in the US.
Here we have laws covering such situations. They mainly pertain to cars and such, but one could certainly make a case for a low-flying helecopter as well. For instance (SS means State Statute):
SS#346.11 Passing or meeting frightened animal:
Whenever a person riding, driving or leading an animal which is frightened gives a signal of distress to the operator of a motor vehicle by a raising of the hand or otherwise, the operator of the motor vehicle shall promptly stop the vehicle unless a movement forward is necessary to avoid an accident or injury and shall, upon request, stop all motive power until such animal is under control.
Also, no person shall intentionally frighten an animal so as to endanger the animal and/ or handler.
SS#346.21 also defines the right of way laws for livestock which under the definitions of the statutes horses qualify.
The operator of a motor vehicle shall yeild right of way to livestock being driven over or along any highway, but any person in charge of such livestock shall use reasonable care and diligence to open the roadway for vehicular traffic.
(This obviously pertains to roadways)
This is such a sad story. I hope people learn something from it.
Condolences to her family.
Here we have laws covering such situations. They mainly pertain to cars and such, but one could certainly make a case for a low-flying helecopter as well. For instance (SS means State Statute):
SS#346.11 Passing or meeting frightened animal:
Whenever a person riding, driving or leading an animal which is frightened gives a signal of distress to the operator of a motor vehicle by a raising of the hand or otherwise, the operator of the motor vehicle shall promptly stop the vehicle unless a movement forward is necessary to avoid an accident or injury and shall, upon request, stop all motive power until such animal is under control.
Also, no person shall intentionally frighten an animal so as to endanger the animal and/ or handler.
SS#346.21 also defines the right of way laws for livestock which under the definitions of the statutes horses qualify.
The operator of a motor vehicle shall yeild right of way to livestock being driven over or along any highway, but any person in charge of such livestock shall use reasonable care and diligence to open the roadway for vehicular traffic.
(This obviously pertains to roadways)
This is such a sad story. I hope people learn something from it.
Condolences to her family.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11
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From: new zealand
Certainly an interesting thread. I am a heli pilot and horse breaker. Firstly I would like to dispel one myth. Horses are only unpredictable to people who have little experience with them. They very quickly calm under any circumstances which do not cause them harm. Take for example police horses who deal with violent crowds. In fact up until a hunded years ago horses were involved in all aspects of industry, farming and war around the world. It is unlikely the horse spooked at a car unless the car was flying around making loud thumping noises at low level.
On the other hand, as has been stated, riding does bring inherent risk of accidents (as does walking to the shops). The only question I see as being relevant is should the helicopter have been there? If it was not taking off or on an approach then the pilot may have some serious questions to answer. Even otherwise if we as pilots have any care for public relations we had better take as much care as possible not to kill people. As with riding, it is our responsibility to limit in all situations the inherent danger to an absolute minimum.
On the other hand, as has been stated, riding does bring inherent risk of accidents (as does walking to the shops). The only question I see as being relevant is should the helicopter have been there? If it was not taking off or on an approach then the pilot may have some serious questions to answer. Even otherwise if we as pilots have any care for public relations we had better take as much care as possible not to kill people. As with riding, it is our responsibility to limit in all situations the inherent danger to an absolute minimum.