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Helicopter Fire-fighting (Merged threads)

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Helicopter Fire-fighting (Merged threads)

Old 16th Jul 2020, 07:58
  #241 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Blue planet
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FireFighting Season 2020 Portugal, AS350 and B412 on the back
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 16:18
  #242 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme View Post
Saw this earlier, just interested about how much benefit this could potentially bring to the fire fighting teams around the world, obviously different countries and even regions have to deal with various terrains, availability of support resources and all the other surprises thrown at you while doing a days work!
There are a few units conducting night time fire fighting in the US. Down in the Los Angeles and San Diego basins it is common practice. The US Forest Service started about 4 years ago with a dedicated program based in Fox Field, just North of the Los Angeles basin.

Colorado State now has a program that is just starting their second season. I went to a briefing given by Vince Wellbaum the head of their program recently. A few observations:
  1. Fire Fighting by helicopter is a little more complex than most realize, you cannot just get a helicopter, throw on a bucket and start dropping. There is a learning curve.
  2. While not "dangerous", (her indoors would never let me out of the house...lol), it does have risk associated with it, and that risk needs to be managed.
  3. Aircraft selection is critical, I am surprised that BC went with an aircraft that no-one else is using on fires--why re-invent the wheel?
  4. When starting night time operations, SLOW everything down. Colorado initially only allowed night ops on a fire that had been seen and re-conned by the pilot during the day and they had further restrictions in place.
  5. It is prolly best to use pumpkins or some other man made dip site initially until you are well practiced.
I wish them well....these are changing times in the world of aerial firefighting, I have seen the general tactics slowly change over the last 15 years, and more so here in California since the Carr and Paradise fires. People are scared, and freak out when they see smoke these days. One of the biggest changes is "bigger is better", and "sooner than later". We are seeing a full dispatch of engines, air attack platform, helicopter and two fixed wing tankers on just a smoke report her in CA, where as it used to be send an engine to confirm first and then order up what you think was needed. Also, with the abundance of Black Hawks now, they are showing up on smaller and smaller fires, it is only 15 years ago that I would be the only helicopter working a fire for about a week, and that was in a Long Ranger---these days the cavalry arrives and I go sit back at base in my hammock.......
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 23:37
  #243 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Zealand
Age: 49
Posts: 395
Coulsons are doing some night stuff down in Australia as well. I think they have a recon ship(76? maybe) in front of a 61 dropping at night.

I still think it would be better if they let you attack the fire first thing in the morning when it isn't doing much, instead of waiting for it to get roaring in the afternoon, and then trying to put out flaming trees.....

I have noticed a bit of a change this year, with New Zealand throwing everything at a fire early and putting it out, rather than one light machine chipping away for days on end.
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Old 16th Jul 2020, 23:58
  #244 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
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Originally Posted by SuperF View Post
I still think it would be better if they let you attack the fire first thing in the morning when it isn't doing much, instead of waiting for it to get roaring in the afternoon, and then trying to put out flaming trees.....
Oh come on---that is conduct unbecoming in the fire world----are we allowed to think logically..... Remember, a fire is not out until all the overhead have gotten their required overtime for the week......but I digress......
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Old 17th Jul 2020, 19:54
  #245 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Redding CA, or on a fire somewhere
Posts: 1,839
Could not resist-----the standard 10 Fire Orders by the USFS re-written by a bored Helitack crew.....
  1. Fight fire halfheartedly but wait a day or two first.
  2. Initiate all actions based on current and expected political climate.
  3. Reassure the community that everything is under control.
  4. Evacuate the community.
  5. Obfuscate the indecision which lead to the fire becoming unmanageable.
  6. Remain blissfully unaware of weather and local factors influencing fire behavior.
  7. Develop tactics that will never be implemented.
  8. Ensure that blame is properly placed.
  9. Retain resources for longer than needed.
  10. Stay alert for good hotels, keep calm about the third frequency changes of the week, think clearly about where to eat dinner, & act decisively (if anyone is watching).
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Old 23rd Jul 2020, 17:08
  #246 (permalink)  
S3R
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 7
Hi Gordy,

Ive sent you a PM.

3R.
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Old 25th Jul 2020, 06:15
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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+1 Gordy,

Not much has changed in 35 years then? Just a bit more “PC”.
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Old 27th Jul 2020, 09:50
  #248 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
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In light of the above posts....An apparently well researched analysis in digestible form, of Australia’s Mega fire.

The Fire has been traced to single lightning strike, a helicopter responded with a team that were to be winched down but wind conditions thwarted the operation.
Nothing unusual in the response or conditions.
These catastrophic fires occur on days where flying conditions are marginal/impossible for rotary and light fixed wing.


So some Covid induced dreaming....We have developed extraordinary flying machines for war.
Could we develop one for first response all weather firefighting?

Probably unmanned and with a highly responsive thrust to counter turbulence.

Yes a $B endevour.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...=0&pfmredir=sm
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Old 13th Feb 2021, 18:53
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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This is a great picture!

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Old 14th Feb 2021, 05:04
  #250 (permalink)  
fdr
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Originally Posted by mickjoebill View Post
In light of the above posts....An apparently well researched analysis in digestible form, of Australia’s Mega fire.

The Fire has been traced to single lightning strike, a helicopter responded with a team that were to be winched down but wind conditions thwarted the operation.
Nothing unusual in the response or conditions.
These catastrophic fires occur on days where flying conditions are marginal/impossible for rotary and light fixed wing.


So some Covid induced dreaming....We have developed extraordinary flying machines for war.
Could we develop one for first response all weather firefighting?

Probably unmanned and with a highly responsive thrust to counter turbulence.

Yes a $B endevour.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...=0&pfmredir=sm
There was a guy....

about 20 years ago, in a shed in SE LA, a guy had a 6 engine 4 seater running, now would be called a sexcopter I guess. He had lots of spare thrust and was envisaging payloads over 1000kg, which would be at the edge of interest as a drone dropship. There is some regulatory constraints, but nothing to get sideways on. There is no technological constraint in doing attack that way, it is purely political will. If the bedstead with a ton of slurry is not flying over people, and that should be a low bar to hurdle, then the risk is lower than is faced by y'all in the choppers. managing the CG during drop is about the only interesting control design. Continuous operations would take a fair bit of manpower and remote pilot is probably desirable for safety and target changes. you can buy baby ones of that Alibaba, for 20kg liquid, to put out cuban cigars.

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Old 14th Feb 2021, 13:42
  #251 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: York
Posts: 17
Good clip of Helicopter fire fighting in Southern Spain 2020


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