OK, what caused this accident? (Video)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To add my 2 cents....
All you have to do is look carefully at what happens to the boat.
It appears that the pilot got the slack out of the line OK, but the initial pull on the boat was enormous. The helo pulls the boat up instantly to plane on the water and accelerates it rather quickly. Just look at the wake it made.
I think the acceleration after planing of the boat (from very large forward thrust) is caused by applying full collective after the pilot runs out of aft cyclic during the pitchover, when he realizes he might go down. With full collective applied, he probably runs the rotor RPM down quickly, and lowering RPM combined with hard collective causes an LTE that yaws the tail boom to the left just before it hits the water. The reason I think the pilot must have had full collectve applied up until he hit the water, is because the boat doesn't slow down until after the water impact.
Like others, I can't see clearly where the rope is attached to the helo, but this is basically the pitch forward version of a dynamic rollover. Like John said, it wouldn't have been so bad if the pilot had gradually started moving the boat. It was the stump pulling power start that got him into trouble.
Too bad the rope didn't break under the load.
All you have to do is look carefully at what happens to the boat.
It appears that the pilot got the slack out of the line OK, but the initial pull on the boat was enormous. The helo pulls the boat up instantly to plane on the water and accelerates it rather quickly. Just look at the wake it made.
I think the acceleration after planing of the boat (from very large forward thrust) is caused by applying full collective after the pilot runs out of aft cyclic during the pitchover, when he realizes he might go down. With full collective applied, he probably runs the rotor RPM down quickly, and lowering RPM combined with hard collective causes an LTE that yaws the tail boom to the left just before it hits the water. The reason I think the pilot must have had full collectve applied up until he hit the water, is because the boat doesn't slow down until after the water impact.
Like others, I can't see clearly where the rope is attached to the helo, but this is basically the pitch forward version of a dynamic rollover. Like John said, it wouldn't have been so bad if the pilot had gradually started moving the boat. It was the stump pulling power start that got him into trouble.
Too bad the rope didn't break under the load.
I thought I could quite clearly see the line over the LH skid. Definately dynamic rollover.
I was interested in the decending LH turn to approach the boat....seemed a little bit hurried if you guys know what I mean.
Guys in the Canadian Navy attach themselves to boats all the time. They seem to have little trouble with it in serious sea states.
I was interested in the decending LH turn to approach the boat....seemed a little bit hurried if you guys know what I mean.
Guys in the Canadian Navy attach themselves to boats all the time. They seem to have little trouble with it in serious sea states.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ON A HILL
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, what caused this accident? (Video)
Thank you FL and CRON Patterdale terrier. No ,never heard of em either. Best features,. Love experiments and have a similar build to a Jet Ranger.
I'll get me coat......
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Age: 51
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Using the combined resources of my VHS video recorder, my mini DV camcorder, my laptop, Pinnacle home studio, Photoshop and my website I can finally post these pics!
They would seem to clearly show that the rope is indeed attached to the cargo hook and does not appear to be hooked over either skid.
You can also see that the boat hasn't actually broken down as they start it up in rather a hurry to assist the crew!
Cheers,
Hollywood
They would seem to clearly show that the rope is indeed attached to the cargo hook and does not appear to be hooked over either skid.
You can also see that the boat hasn't actually broken down as they start it up in rather a hurry to assist the crew!
Cheers,
Hollywood
Danno,
You've obviously got way too much time on your hands up there in the frozen North
Has anyone any idea where this all happened? I can't make out the rego, and couldn't pick up any obvious location.
Speechless Two,
Intriguing tie down on the Wessex, any recollection why you would have done a high hover instead of using a tie down base on the ground? I like the 815 reunion site, looks like you had a good time
You've obviously got way too much time on your hands up there in the frozen North
Has anyone any idea where this all happened? I can't make out the rego, and couldn't pick up any obvious location.
Speechless Two,
Intriguing tie down on the Wessex, any recollection why you would have done a high hover instead of using a tie down base on the ground? I like the 815 reunion site, looks like you had a good time
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CH, excellent photo work. However I'd like to disagree on one point. You said
I think if you watch the entire video, you'll see that the pull of the helo put the boat in motion, and that it was coming to a stop after the helo hit the water.
It's nice to think they started thinking of the crew that quickly, but at the end of the video, the folks in the boat still look scared.
You can also see that the boat hasn't actually broken down as they start it up in rather a hurry to assist the crew!
It's nice to think they started thinking of the crew that quickly, but at the end of the video, the folks in the boat still look scared.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: N20,W99
Age: 53
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hollywood,
You have all my respects as an image guru! Amazing work !
Did you get the images from the same video we have all watched? (Windows Media 328KB file)
Can you make the registration? Let me guess, its an XA-_ _ _ right?
Damn, I've got a story to tell. (although I really don't want to.)
You have all my respects as an image guru! Amazing work !
Did you get the images from the same video we have all watched? (Windows Media 328KB file)
Can you make the registration? Let me guess, its an XA-_ _ _ right?
Damn, I've got a story to tell. (although I really don't want to.)
Damn, I've got a story to tell
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Rhode Island, USA
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah there is a question from the civilian in the back. What is the minimum cruising speed of the helo in question? That boats hull speed probably tops out around 50-55kts.. After that the drag from the hull goes through the proverbial roof. I am not challenging the analysis of the pros, just trying to add my pence worth. By the way I like the dog on the leash explanation. Very clear and very funny
I'll get me coat......
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Age: 51
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the kind words.
Flight Safety,
I agree it was coming to a stop as the 206 hit the water but the video I have is much clearer than the link posted on this thread. I recorded it directly off one of those 'Funniest Home Video' shows and then downloaded it into my laptop at mini DV quality, my clip is about 14mb in size! In the footage I have, the driver of the boat is sitting on the front of the boat as it is being towed, then the rope snaps and he jumps back over the windscreen of the boat and fires up the engine. The last two frames I posted are from the very end of the clip and you can see the spray coming off the prop as he fires the engine up. I think it was more of a stunt than coming to the aid of a boat in distress.
Blender pilot,
As mentioned above I recorded the footage off the telly myself so it's much clearer. Unfortunately not quite clear enough to make out the rego. I have slowed it down a little though and you can see that the tail section actually breaks clean off about a 10cm in front of the vertical stab. Any prizes for inventing a statement for the insurance claim form............there's a whole new thread right there!
Cheers,
Hollywood
Flight Safety,
I agree it was coming to a stop as the 206 hit the water but the video I have is much clearer than the link posted on this thread. I recorded it directly off one of those 'Funniest Home Video' shows and then downloaded it into my laptop at mini DV quality, my clip is about 14mb in size! In the footage I have, the driver of the boat is sitting on the front of the boat as it is being towed, then the rope snaps and he jumps back over the windscreen of the boat and fires up the engine. The last two frames I posted are from the very end of the clip and you can see the spray coming off the prop as he fires the engine up. I think it was more of a stunt than coming to the aid of a boat in distress.
Blender pilot,
As mentioned above I recorded the footage off the telly myself so it's much clearer. Unfortunately not quite clear enough to make out the rego. I have slowed it down a little though and you can see that the tail section actually breaks clean off about a 10cm in front of the vertical stab. Any prizes for inventing a statement for the insurance claim form............there's a whole new thread right there!
Cheers,
Hollywood
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Dallas, TX USA
Posts: 739
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Capt Hollywood, from the video you saw, you don't think it was a stranded boat rescue after all?
Hmm....
I may not be the sharpest tack in the box, but using a helo to tow a boat that actually has a good engine and fuel in the tank, sounds totally askew. That might somehow account for the fast start on the tow. Maybe blender pilot can shed some light on this.
This is starting to get interesting....
Hmm....
I may not be the sharpest tack in the box, but using a helo to tow a boat that actually has a good engine and fuel in the tank, sounds totally askew. That might somehow account for the fast start on the tow. Maybe blender pilot can shed some light on this.
This is starting to get interesting....
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 2,584
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Seems to me that "lack of imagination" kinda sums it up, but that's being kind.
Didn't the numptie think about the likely result of the obviously lightweight rope snapping, or coming loose/being jettisoned from the boat? It would have snapped back at the helo and almost certainly got wrapped in the tail or main rotor. To make such a connection without a long and thorough briefing with the "ground" party is nothing short of stupidity and incompetence.
That extraordinary zero level downwind turn before passing the rope. I get the feeling he had the collective under his armpit and full boot on as he visibly sank towards the oggin in that manoeuvre, it was only the poor old Jetranger that got him out of that pickle, bless it. First time I saw the clip I thought that was where he was stoofing in.
Then the insane angle of pitch as he accelerated away. That big heavy speedboat was hoicked onto the plane in a second or two. Where was the caution, care and finesse in that? Nowhere, mon frere!
And, as someone noted above, he made no effort to ensure he was perpendicular to the load, he was clearly way off to the left of it. Result? a big couple between the lateral pull on the hook and the thrustline of the rotorhead equals roll to the left. So he pulls harder (if not at max torque anyway, which I suspect he is) , rolls harder, runs out of rt cyclic to oppose roll left as couple overpowers cyclic and SPLOSH!
Scary to think that someone with a commercial licence would do such a thing.
If the registration prefix is visible then surely the national accident reports will give the whole story???
Didn't the numptie think about the likely result of the obviously lightweight rope snapping, or coming loose/being jettisoned from the boat? It would have snapped back at the helo and almost certainly got wrapped in the tail or main rotor. To make such a connection without a long and thorough briefing with the "ground" party is nothing short of stupidity and incompetence.
That extraordinary zero level downwind turn before passing the rope. I get the feeling he had the collective under his armpit and full boot on as he visibly sank towards the oggin in that manoeuvre, it was only the poor old Jetranger that got him out of that pickle, bless it. First time I saw the clip I thought that was where he was stoofing in.
Then the insane angle of pitch as he accelerated away. That big heavy speedboat was hoicked onto the plane in a second or two. Where was the caution, care and finesse in that? Nowhere, mon frere!
And, as someone noted above, he made no effort to ensure he was perpendicular to the load, he was clearly way off to the left of it. Result? a big couple between the lateral pull on the hook and the thrustline of the rotorhead equals roll to the left. So he pulls harder (if not at max torque anyway, which I suspect he is) , rolls harder, runs out of rt cyclic to oppose roll left as couple overpowers cyclic and SPLOSH!
Scary to think that someone with a commercial licence would do such a thing.
If the registration prefix is visible then surely the national accident reports will give the whole story???
I'll get me coat......
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Age: 51
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I may not be the sharpest tack in the box, but using a helo to tow a boat that actually has a good engine and fuel in the tank, sounds totally askew.
"Totally askew" might be a bit of an understatement. I don't think I'm too far off the mark in saying that it was a stunt or just plain showing off. At the end of the clip it shows several other boats coming to the aid of the downed 206 within a very short time, I'm sure they could have aided the original boat if it had a problem. Also, let's assume the boat had a legitimate problem, how did it alert an aircraft that it would require a tow and did there just happen to be a 206 in the area with a line already attached to the cargo hook? In the clip I have you can see that the line is attached to the cargo hook and runs up to the passenger in the co-pilot seat to allow him to hand it to someone!
Of course there is always the possibility that the boat did just breakdown, the sailor managed to flag down a passing Jetranger, radioed that he would be requiring a tow to the nearest boat repair facility, and so on!!!!
Me thinks this was planned, but not very well!
As for the rego, you'll have to make up your own mind on that one.
Cheers,
Hollywood
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: N20,W99
Age: 53
Posts: 1,119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
XA-_ _ _ registration, damn! I knew it!
I knew the pilot, and have even seen the sawed off cyclic one of the local guys collected as a souvenir from the wreck!
Give me a day to me prepare mentally to admit this happened to someone I know and tell the story. (gather all the precise info)
Clue: Happened here, and the boat was working perfectly.
I knew the pilot, and have even seen the sawed off cyclic one of the local guys collected as a souvenir from the wreck!
Give me a day to me prepare mentally to admit this happened to someone I know and tell the story. (gather all the precise info)
Clue: Happened here, and the boat was working perfectly.