Mountain Flying
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Hi to All!
Hey Paco!
What a post!Thank's a lot for your post and time.I have learned a lot,lots of interesting things.
BTW are you from Spain?
To John Eacott!
Thank's for your offert I would love to get that ops manual.I have word 2000 so I think I will be able to open your doc.
Again thank you All for contributing in this post!
Roberto
Hey Paco!
What a post!Thank's a lot for your post and time.I have learned a lot,lots of interesting things.
BTW are you from Spain?
To John Eacott!
Thank's for your offert I would love to get that ops manual.I have word 2000 so I think I will be able to open your doc.
Again thank you All for contributing in this post!
Roberto
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Im a Brit in Canada - dunno how I ended up with paco. I hope all that helped - are you planning to fly in mountains anytime soon? It is something that needs proper training, but not all courses are the same - research them thoroughly.
cheers
Phil
cheers
Phil
Guest
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A very good piece of advice once passed onto me, was :
WATCH WHAT THE BIRDS DO.
If you want to fly, not just in the mountains, watch what birds do.
In strong winds they don't turn their tails to the wind, they ride it, weaving left and right and let the wind move them to where they want to be. For a helo the advantage of this are:
A positive airspeed.
Nose more or less into wind if something goes wrong.
A low groundspeed.
you shouldn't run out of room in your valley/bowl or whatever and have to overbank/pitch.
The final piece of advice.
Practice. Especially with someone who knows. Mountains cannot be taught by a book. Experience is the key.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. try to use someone elses experience before you develop your own. It can go very wrong very quickly and if you haven't planned ahead you are f***ed!
If you are teaching yourself from a book:
a. You are a f***ing mug.
b. don't try this at night.
WATCH WHAT THE BIRDS DO.
If you want to fly, not just in the mountains, watch what birds do.
In strong winds they don't turn their tails to the wind, they ride it, weaving left and right and let the wind move them to where they want to be. For a helo the advantage of this are:
A positive airspeed.
Nose more or less into wind if something goes wrong.
A low groundspeed.
you shouldn't run out of room in your valley/bowl or whatever and have to overbank/pitch.
The final piece of advice.
Practice. Especially with someone who knows. Mountains cannot be taught by a book. Experience is the key.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. try to use someone elses experience before you develop your own. It can go very wrong very quickly and if you haven't planned ahead you are f***ed!
If you are teaching yourself from a book:
a. You are a f***ing mug.
b. don't try this at night.
Guest
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Hey - Muchos apologies for not posting the detail you asked for! I have not been in a position to do much work recently.
However,some of your other contributors to this topic have more than covered some of the detail that is essential knowledge.
I'm sorry for the lame excuse(not been too well recently) and will keep an eye on the topic in order to add the odd snippet - if need be. Best Regards
energy driven eccentric nirvana - eden
However,some of your other contributors to this topic have more than covered some of the detail that is essential knowledge.
I'm sorry for the lame excuse(not been too well recently) and will keep an eye on the topic in order to add the odd snippet - if need be. Best Regards
energy driven eccentric nirvana - eden
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Some sound advice here.....but note the major safety point. "Do not try this alone, you need to be taught it" (by someone reputable!)
Having flown throughout Nth Norway, UK, Austria, Bosnia, New Zealand Alps and the Antarctic I would like to add:
1. Escape Route: The requirement is obvious; you must maintain a suitable escape for as long as possible. You'll either need it for power probs or T/R authority. In you recce you must decide if either (or both) will be your nemesis. If possible keep your escape opposite to your power pedal (right in Bell, left in AS helos). If you need to run away, cyclic firmly in the escape direction to enhance 'weathercocking' tendancies....therby relieving T/R input and increasing the power available.
2. 3000ft or 15000ft, makes no difference in your technique.....DA is everything. (Landing on Mt Erebus at 12K & -15 was fine but as we established the hover we flew into a steam vent from the volcano....temp rose to +26 in 2-3 seconds!) Planning is important but you can't plan for everything.
3. Having flown with Brits, Kiwis and Canadiens, I can safely say that we all have something to learn from each other. No one has the perfect technique...experience is the only leveller (and you can't teach that).
Night.....oh yes you can....(on NVG) in the snow and with under-slung loads.........and yes it has its moments!
Crawl - Walk.....never Run....it scares the passengers.
Having flown throughout Nth Norway, UK, Austria, Bosnia, New Zealand Alps and the Antarctic I would like to add:
1. Escape Route: The requirement is obvious; you must maintain a suitable escape for as long as possible. You'll either need it for power probs or T/R authority. In you recce you must decide if either (or both) will be your nemesis. If possible keep your escape opposite to your power pedal (right in Bell, left in AS helos). If you need to run away, cyclic firmly in the escape direction to enhance 'weathercocking' tendancies....therby relieving T/R input and increasing the power available.
2. 3000ft or 15000ft, makes no difference in your technique.....DA is everything. (Landing on Mt Erebus at 12K & -15 was fine but as we established the hover we flew into a steam vent from the volcano....temp rose to +26 in 2-3 seconds!) Planning is important but you can't plan for everything.
3. Having flown with Brits, Kiwis and Canadiens, I can safely say that we all have something to learn from each other. No one has the perfect technique...experience is the only leveller (and you can't teach that).
Night.....oh yes you can....(on NVG) in the snow and with under-slung loads.........and yes it has its moments!
Crawl - Walk.....never Run....it scares the passengers.
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This site contains some very interesting accounts and pictures of the rescue activities on Mt McKinley, Alaska by the "Denali Lama".
The highlight of many of the rescues is the use of the Screamer Suit, into which the individuals climb, before utilising the integral harness to attach themselves to the longline hook! They are then slung off the mountain - check out the British climbers picked off at 19,000 feet!
Jim Hood has been flying this contract for many years now, initially for Rocky Mountain, and currently for Evergreen. In addition to these rescues, he also had an engine shut down at 14,000 feet, when he landed to pick up an injured climber. The engine lit-off on the third attempt, not before Jim had realized that there was a very high likelihood that they were about to die on the mountain - lucky escape!
http://classic.mountainzone.com/climbing/denali/rescue/
The highlight of many of the rescues is the use of the Screamer Suit, into which the individuals climb, before utilising the integral harness to attach themselves to the longline hook! They are then slung off the mountain - check out the British climbers picked off at 19,000 feet!
Jim Hood has been flying this contract for many years now, initially for Rocky Mountain, and currently for Evergreen. In addition to these rescues, he also had an engine shut down at 14,000 feet, when he landed to pick up an injured climber. The engine lit-off on the third attempt, not before Jim had realized that there was a very high likelihood that they were about to die on the mountain - lucky escape!
http://classic.mountainzone.com/climbing/denali/rescue/
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Hey Paco!
Where are you in Canada?Last April I traveled from Calgary to Edmonton,Prince george to Vancouver looking for a job .I hope I have more luck this year I'm planing to come to western Canada in April.Can you recomend some good schools to get a mountain course besides of Canadian in Penticton?
Thank's
To all thank's for your advicements!
Roberto
Where are you in Canada?Last April I traveled from Calgary to Edmonton,Prince george to Vancouver looking for a job .I hope I have more luck this year I'm planing to come to western Canada in April.Can you recomend some good schools to get a mountain course besides of Canadian in Penticton?
Thank's
To all thank's for your advicements!
Roberto
......or,Guest
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Hi Phil!(paco)
Wich company are you working in Calgary,last year I visited a couple of companies in Calgery (Trans Canada Pipelines,Eagle Copters,Turbowest Helicopters).
If you don't want to put the name on the Forum you can e-mail [email protected]
And thanK's for your advicements
Roberto
To Eden.
I hope you feel bether soon!We are waiting.
Haha!
Wich company are you working in Calgary,last year I visited a couple of companies in Calgery (Trans Canada Pipelines,Eagle Copters,Turbowest Helicopters).
If you don't want to put the name on the Forum you can e-mail [email protected]
And thanK's for your advicements
Roberto
To Eden.
I hope you feel bether soon!We are waiting.
Haha!
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hi guys
very interesting postings...never too old to learn.....guys in Indian AAC(flying the Lama) land regularly at helipads varying from 10,000 to 23,000 ft....its all possible because of some old fashioned dual sorties.....and a solid gen of ground subjects and ur own FU's....lets keep this link going......lama's a wonderful machine ....the best the frenchies have offered to this world....alles gute
very interesting postings...never too old to learn.....guys in Indian AAC(flying the Lama) land regularly at helipads varying from 10,000 to 23,000 ft....its all possible because of some old fashioned dual sorties.....and a solid gen of ground subjects and ur own FU's....lets keep this link going......lama's a wonderful machine ....the best the frenchies have offered to this world....alles gute
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Gokel - if you can't use smokes do a few low passes directly over the landing site from various directions. Do this at a low airspeed but stay above ETL. Look at your track and heading on each pass - this should help you assess the wind direction. You may also see some evidence on the surface such as grass being flattened in one direction or snow granules being blown across the surface.
Buena suerte amigo.
[This message has been edited by army427 (edited 04 April 2001).]
[This message has been edited by army427 (edited 04 April 2001).]
Buena suerte amigo.
[This message has been edited by army427 (edited 04 April 2001).]
[This message has been edited by army427 (edited 04 April 2001).]
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GOKEL:
Try a few eye level passes combined with your contour crawl. This will establish whether you're in upflow (good air) or downflow (bad air). You should do these passes at 50-60 knots so you can pick up visually the apparent pace (groundspeed)for the into wind/out of wind conditions.
If one pass requires 80%Q and you appear to be going quick, then your in downflow/downwind air. If you only need 50%Q and you feel like you have a good walking pace, then you have upflow/into wind air.
As all others have stated previously, take a good mountain course like CHC Penticton. Jan Rustad may taaaaaaaalk slooooooooow but he knows his stuff.
Cheers, OffshoreIgor
PS Took the Penticton course in '87.
Try a few eye level passes combined with your contour crawl. This will establish whether you're in upflow (good air) or downflow (bad air). You should do these passes at 50-60 knots so you can pick up visually the apparent pace (groundspeed)for the into wind/out of wind conditions.
If one pass requires 80%Q and you appear to be going quick, then your in downflow/downwind air. If you only need 50%Q and you feel like you have a good walking pace, then you have upflow/into wind air.
As all others have stated previously, take a good mountain course like CHC Penticton. Jan Rustad may taaaaaaaalk slooooooooow but he knows his stuff.
Cheers, OffshoreIgor
PS Took the Penticton course in '87.
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Hi Phil!
I hope I will get my visa soon.Do you think that I will be to late for job search if I arrive to Canada in the begining of mai?And do you know some companies that hire low time pilots ????
Thank's
Thank's to all for making that topic that intersting!!!
Roberto
I hope I will get my visa soon.Do you think that I will be to late for job search if I arrive to Canada in the begining of mai?And do you know some companies that hire low time pilots ????
Thank's
Thank's to all for making that topic that intersting!!!
Roberto
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You're a bit late for banging on doors for the season in general, but we expect to be busier than usual this year anyway, and I'm sure it's the same for other companies. You will find that the companies themselves have no bias, but the customers do! For example, we have a job that specifies 1500 hours for a job that a 100-hour guy is totally overqualified for. The reason is either a) they would like some experience should an engine failure happen or b) they've been listening to a "consultant".
Having said that, there are some companies that don't care, so you may be lucky. As a guide, I get on average 2 calls a day from low time people, so the competition is keen. There is a shortage, but it's in the 1250-3000 hour band.
cheers
phil
Having said that, there are some companies that don't care, so you may be lucky. As a guide, I get on average 2 calls a day from low time people, so the competition is keen. There is a shortage, but it's in the 1250-3000 hour band.
cheers
phil
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Iceland
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Mountain flying
Mountain flying is a thrill among itself, don't you think?
I've been reading a lot of articles in magazines like Rotor&Wing and Autorotation and some about mountain flying. What struck me when reading these articles was that the they were written in a manner that the common helicopter pilot, ( I reccon they were aimed at US pilots coz those ara US magazines.... but) isn't supposed to know anything about mountain flying??? So my questions to you experienced guys are:
What are your opinions on these articles and mountain flying?
Please tell us (the inexperienced) about your experience in this field(considerations, safety issues)?
I fly in Iceland and here we have some great mountains as many of you might have guessed an they sometimes seem to produce bad weather in almost every conditions.
Hope to hear many opinions.
Safe flying.
Edited for spelling, ( ARRRRR those special Icelandic letters)
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: Heli-Ice ] Same purpose
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Heli-Ice ]
I've been reading a lot of articles in magazines like Rotor&Wing and Autorotation and some about mountain flying. What struck me when reading these articles was that the they were written in a manner that the common helicopter pilot, ( I reccon they were aimed at US pilots coz those ara US magazines.... but) isn't supposed to know anything about mountain flying??? So my questions to you experienced guys are:
What are your opinions on these articles and mountain flying?
Please tell us (the inexperienced) about your experience in this field(considerations, safety issues)?
I fly in Iceland and here we have some great mountains as many of you might have guessed an they sometimes seem to produce bad weather in almost every conditions.
Hope to hear many opinions.
Safe flying.
Edited for spelling, ( ARRRRR those special Icelandic letters)
[ 30 November 2001: Message edited by: Heli-Ice ] Same purpose
[ 01 December 2001: Message edited by: Heli-Ice ]
