Helicopter Down in the Kimberly
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
From: TI
Chairman,
I'm impressed, only been here 5 minutes and you have appointed yourself the moderator. Maybe you had trouble getting a job simply because of your personality i.e. not only are you a crap pilot but an a/hole at the same time! But that's nothing new.
I must admit it was 1986 when I last flew in that area, and mentioning R22 was still blasphemy.
As for hours - what's that got to do with it? What in your small mind is enough?
I still hold ATPL/CPL in 3 different countries, LAME in 4 different countries, have some experience in about a dozen different types, 4 of which are twins, have flown in about 20 different countries with only about 8000 hours. Chicken manure compared to others here in this forum.
"No offence intended by my comments as they are unrelated to the incident."
Took the words out of my mouth - why not start another thread to show you have some respect. Shouldn't take you more than a week to work out. Heres the subject for you - "Working outback is all about !!!! machines and dodgy maintenance" and while your there how about a dissertation on your experiences as PIC of the Bell 412 with Auto Hover (evidently).
See a doctor beforehand though, it would appear that the swelling in your testes has migrated to your head!
I'm impressed, only been here 5 minutes and you have appointed yourself the moderator. Maybe you had trouble getting a job simply because of your personality i.e. not only are you a crap pilot but an a/hole at the same time! But that's nothing new.
I must admit it was 1986 when I last flew in that area, and mentioning R22 was still blasphemy.
As for hours - what's that got to do with it? What in your small mind is enough?
I still hold ATPL/CPL in 3 different countries, LAME in 4 different countries, have some experience in about a dozen different types, 4 of which are twins, have flown in about 20 different countries with only about 8000 hours. Chicken manure compared to others here in this forum.
"No offence intended by my comments as they are unrelated to the incident."
Took the words out of my mouth - why not start another thread to show you have some respect. Shouldn't take you more than a week to work out. Heres the subject for you - "Working outback is all about !!!! machines and dodgy maintenance" and while your there how about a dissertation on your experiences as PIC of the Bell 412 with Auto Hover (evidently).
See a doctor beforehand though, it would appear that the swelling in your testes has migrated to your head!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Gio mate!
seems we got off to a bad start. how could i confuse someone living in TI for someone of your legendary status. !!!! so sorry. as for 412's. great big piles of !!!!e. i will stick with my 64 thanks. why dont you start a thread on the outback maintenance since you are a lame. perhaps your lame background can explain why so many of my mates are dead thanks to those arseholes.
Oh....PS: wipe your nose .... you still got !!!! on it
seems we got off to a bad start. how could i confuse someone living in TI for someone of your legendary status. !!!! so sorry. as for 412's. great big piles of !!!!e. i will stick with my 64 thanks. why dont you start a thread on the outback maintenance since you are a lame. perhaps your lame background can explain why so many of my mates are dead thanks to those arseholes.
Oh....PS: wipe your nose .... you still got !!!! on it
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 833
Likes: 1
From: Canberra, Australia
Chairman,
Why not try to use evidenced arguments rather than childish insults. If you look through most of the PPRUNE threads you will find that there are always differing opinions from those that post here, but nearly all are well informed and maturely written.
You may be mistaking this site for justhelicopters.
Why not try to use evidenced arguments rather than childish insults. If you look through most of the PPRUNE threads you will find that there are always differing opinions from those that post here, but nearly all are well informed and maturely written.
You may be mistaking this site for justhelicopters.
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: Australia
My sincere condolences to Pat, Kerry & Family. Also to Banjo and the guys at Heliwork and Slingair
I can only apologise for some of the comments placed here by other people. As the Wizard said definately the wrong time and place.
I did hear yesterday that there was a m/r blade problem, not 100% sure as to what yet.
Its been a very bad year for Kimberly aviation.
I can only apologise for some of the comments placed here by other people. As the Wizard said definately the wrong time and place.
I did hear yesterday that there was a m/r blade problem, not 100% sure as to what yet.
Its been a very bad year for Kimberly aviation.
PPRuNe Time
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
From: Australia
ATSB Report out
Findings
1. The R44 departed cruise flight in a descending right turn approximately 17 minutes after take off from the Cape Dommett area.
2. The R44 first contacted trees at a height of 36 ft AGL.
3. The R44 was approximately 27 kg over the MTOW for the helicopter type at impact.
4. The R44 centre of gravity was outside the forward limit for the helicopter type at impact.
5. The accident was not survivable.
1. The R44 departed cruise flight in a descending right turn approximately 17 minutes after take off from the Cape Dommett area.
2. The R44 first contacted trees at a height of 36 ft AGL.
3. The R44 was approximately 27 kg over the MTOW for the helicopter type at impact.
4. The R44 centre of gravity was outside the forward limit for the helicopter type at impact.
5. The accident was not survivable.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: AUS
I can't get the link to work. The link from the atsb site is not working for me either.
Was the c.o.g. blamed for the accident ???? Sounds a bit simplistic. A good percentage of Kimberley flights would be conducted overweight and out of c.o.g.
Was the c.o.g. blamed for the accident ???? Sounds a bit simplistic. A good percentage of Kimberley flights would be conducted overweight and out of c.o.g.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Geographically misplaced, but never lost.
Findings
Time Out's posting is pretty much it as far as overall findings.
So they really don't know what happened, but reading the report the most likely scenario appears to be engine failure/power loss and a hard landing from auto in inhospitable, unforgiving terrain.... RIP all.
So they really don't know what happened, but reading the report the most likely scenario appears to be engine failure/power loss and a hard landing from auto in inhospitable, unforgiving terrain.... RIP all.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: AUS
It was and is a sad loss. Reading between the lines on the accident report it is very frustrating the way the management can and does encourage pilots to break the law for the sake of money and when things go wrong sit back and point at the company ops manual as proof that the company was doing the right thing but the pilot wasn't following procedure.
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 324
Likes: 0
R44 Accident Kununurra
R44 Accident Kununurra
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=591
Apologies if there's a thread on here already on this accident. Had a good look and couldn't see one.
The R44 would appear (from the manufacturer's Warnings in its own flight manual) to be a very marginal machine - i.e. to say very unforgiving and capable of biting lethally merely through transitting through a strong willy willy (aka thermal).
I must admit that I've never had any of those type reservations or apprehensions in Hueys or Squirrels, including in IMC. Perhaps I just led a sheltered life.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occu...ail.cfm?ID=591
Apologies if there's a thread on here already on this accident. Had a good look and couldn't see one.
The R44 would appear (from the manufacturer's Warnings in its own flight manual) to be a very marginal machine - i.e. to say very unforgiving and capable of biting lethally merely through transitting through a strong willy willy (aka thermal).
I must admit that I've never had any of those type reservations or apprehensions in Hueys or Squirrels, including in IMC. Perhaps I just led a sheltered life.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
From: Cambridgeshire, UK
"The R44 would appear (from the manufacturer's Warnings in its own flight manual) to be a very marginal machine..."
Can this be said of teetering rotor machines in general, or is it particular to the R44?
Mart
Can this be said of teetering rotor machines in general, or is it particular to the R44?
Mart
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
From: AUS
Graviman.
I'm not a big fan of the R44 at all but in this case I don't think the problem was the aircraft type. Reading the report you come up with
Very low time pilot, hot day, overloaded aircraft, 500 feet agl, hostile terrain. There was no finding of an engine failure but with this combination of factors it MAY have only taken something quite simple such as a governor failure, or just a warning light illumination to start a chain of events that rapidly got ahead of the pilot.
He was flying with very little experience in a situation that had very little margin of error. If the low rpm horn came on, for example, for whatever reason, by the time he lowered the lever and tried to sort the auto out he would have been almost on the ground.
Given the circumstances I think that whatever aircraft he had been in the result may have been the same.
I'm not a big fan of the R44 at all but in this case I don't think the problem was the aircraft type. Reading the report you come up with
Very low time pilot, hot day, overloaded aircraft, 500 feet agl, hostile terrain. There was no finding of an engine failure but with this combination of factors it MAY have only taken something quite simple such as a governor failure, or just a warning light illumination to start a chain of events that rapidly got ahead of the pilot.
He was flying with very little experience in a situation that had very little margin of error. If the low rpm horn came on, for example, for whatever reason, by the time he lowered the lever and tried to sort the auto out he would have been almost on the ground.
Given the circumstances I think that whatever aircraft he had been in the result may have been the same.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: Queensland Australia
Unctious
I think you have got your definitions a bit awry. A willy willy (AKA Dust Devil) is not just a "thermal".
A big Willy willy is basically a small tornado without necesarrily having the storm clouds etc over the top of it.
The horizontal components of the wind can be 50 plus knots over a very short distance with sudden wind shear in the opposite direction of equal speed. Crossing through one is not just catching a thermal it's more akin to passing through a horizontal micro-burst.
I have seen them pick up bits of corrugated iron, branches and plenty of dirt/dust and take them up several hundred feet.
merely through transitting through a strong willy willy (aka thermal).
A big Willy willy is basically a small tornado without necesarrily having the storm clouds etc over the top of it.
The horizontal components of the wind can be 50 plus knots over a very short distance with sudden wind shear in the opposite direction of equal speed. Crossing through one is not just catching a thermal it's more akin to passing through a horizontal micro-burst.
I have seen them pick up bits of corrugated iron, branches and plenty of dirt/dust and take them up several hundred feet.
