Southern California fires spreading rapidly (Firefighting photographs)
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So just to reiterate - once again the politicians and good old red tape have screwed everything up again.
Just to add insult to injury one San Diego operator is sending one of his machines to Mexico tomorrow (smoke permitting). To do what? Fight fires of course.
Just to add insult to injury one San Diego operator is sending one of his machines to Mexico tomorrow (smoke permitting). To do what? Fight fires of course.
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Yes that is correct, was talking to our Irish friend today and he is sending the Astar and bucket south of the border. He did the same thing last year.
Shows how bloody stupid it is, here is an operator based right in San Diego and he cant get his helicopters on the fires in his own backyard and so he ends up heading down into Mexico. Dont you love the red tape and B/S that goes with this.
Shows how bloody stupid it is, here is an operator based right in San Diego and he cant get his helicopters on the fires in his own backyard and so he ends up heading down into Mexico. Dont you love the red tape and B/S that goes with this.
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Just in case some people aren't familiar with 'CDF', it's the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
The CDF's mission is the fire protection and stewardship of over 31 million acres of California's privately-owned wildlands. In addition, it provides varied emergency services in 35 of the State's 58 counties via contracts with local governments.
NBCSandiego.com
11:24 p.m. PST October 28, 2003
The City of San Diego isn't marked on the map - it's in the bottom left corner just above 'Chula Vista'.
Satellite image showing smoke plumes over the county
The CDF's mission is the fire protection and stewardship of over 31 million acres of California's privately-owned wildlands. In addition, it provides varied emergency services in 35 of the State's 58 counties via contracts with local governments.
NBCSandiego.com
11:24 p.m. PST October 28, 2003
SAN DIEGO
Residents fled from rural communities in north, east and southern San Diego County Tuesday as fires continued to rage out off control for a third day.
Exhausted fire crews were pulled back in San Diego County even though two devastating blazes threatened to merge into a super fire. "They're so fatigued that despite the fact the fire perimeter might become much larger, we're not willing to let the firefighters continue any further," said Rich Hawkins, a U.S. Forest Service fire chief. "They are too fatigued from three days of battle."
The flames are feeding on millions of dead trees, weakened by drought and killed by a bark beetle infestation. Officials were particularly worried about "crowning," where flames leap from one treetop to another, leaving firefighters on the ground all but powerless to stop them.
"If that occurs, we don't have the capability to put those fires out," U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman Carol Beckley said. "It will be a firestorm."
Ten thousand firefighters were on the front lines throughout the state, battling California's deadliest wildfires in more than a decade.
Authorities announced two more deaths in San Bernardino County on Tuesday, bringing the death toll from the fires to 16.
Since Oct. 21, at least 10 wind-driven wildfires -- many of them arson-caused -- have rampaged through Southern California, demolishing neighborhoods, gutting businesses and blackening more than half a million acres of land from the Mexican border to the Ventura-Los Angeles county line. Nearly 1,600 homes have been destroyed. Two burn victims were in critical condition in San Diego.
San Diego's Cedar Fire is the largest in California. It has blackened more than 215,000 acres -- nearly 10 percent of the county.
It formed a 45-mile front in the East County and was just miles from merging with the 37,000-acre Paradise Fire fire near Escondido.
Exhausted fire crews were pulled back in San Diego County even though two devastating blazes threatened to merge into a super fire. "They're so fatigued that despite the fact the fire perimeter might become much larger, we're not willing to let the firefighters continue any further," said Rich Hawkins, a U.S. Forest Service fire chief. "They are too fatigued from three days of battle."
The flames are feeding on millions of dead trees, weakened by drought and killed by a bark beetle infestation. Officials were particularly worried about "crowning," where flames leap from one treetop to another, leaving firefighters on the ground all but powerless to stop them.
"If that occurs, we don't have the capability to put those fires out," U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman Carol Beckley said. "It will be a firestorm."
Ten thousand firefighters were on the front lines throughout the state, battling California's deadliest wildfires in more than a decade.
Authorities announced two more deaths in San Bernardino County on Tuesday, bringing the death toll from the fires to 16.
Since Oct. 21, at least 10 wind-driven wildfires -- many of them arson-caused -- have rampaged through Southern California, demolishing neighborhoods, gutting businesses and blackening more than half a million acres of land from the Mexican border to the Ventura-Los Angeles county line. Nearly 1,600 homes have been destroyed. Two burn victims were in critical condition in San Diego.
San Diego's Cedar Fire is the largest in California. It has blackened more than 215,000 acres -- nearly 10 percent of the county.
It formed a 45-mile front in the East County and was just miles from merging with the 37,000-acre Paradise Fire fire near Escondido.
The City of San Diego isn't marked on the map - it's in the bottom left corner just above 'Chula Vista'.
Satellite image showing smoke plumes over the county
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 29th Oct 2003 at 15:59.
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Red tape debacle...
Ned,
Why don't we hear about this "red tape" issue in the news? You would think the citizens of California would be outraged. Heck, now that federal dollars (our taxes) are going to an emergency area that MAY have been manageable before it became a disaster area is disconcerting. There will always be waste in any organization (governement the most, big business the second, etc). However, I find it ludacous that an operator is flying to Mexico when he's been offering his services locally over the past week! Why don't you contact the Editor's desk at the Washington Post, LA Times, etc, and have them investigate this further. If they can verify the facts, hopefully they will get this into the public arena.
R2
Why don't we hear about this "red tape" issue in the news? You would think the citizens of California would be outraged. Heck, now that federal dollars (our taxes) are going to an emergency area that MAY have been manageable before it became a disaster area is disconcerting. There will always be waste in any organization (governement the most, big business the second, etc). However, I find it ludacous that an operator is flying to Mexico when he's been offering his services locally over the past week! Why don't you contact the Editor's desk at the Washington Post, LA Times, etc, and have them investigate this further. If they can verify the facts, hopefully they will get this into the public arena.
R2
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Re lack of airborne firefighting in San Diego -
Extracts from an article in today's LA Times
Extracts from an article in today's LA Times
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA FIRES
Delay in Aerial Water Drops Is Criticized
Some officials in San Diego County blame the Davis administration.
Overlapping jurisdictions hindered early responses.
SAN DIEGO — As fire continued to destroy large portions of San Diego County, the dispute between some local officials and the administration of Gov. Gray Davis intensified Tuesday over why aerial tankers and water-laden helicopters were not available in the first two days of the blaze.
County supervisors fumed that Davis was too slow in authorizing the use of state "air assets" to douse the fire and too timid in seeking federal assistance. Several had pleaded with the governor's staff last weekend to redirect state resources to San Diego and demand help from the federal government and military.
Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Alpine), whose home was destroyed by fire Monday, said federal legislation that would smooth the way for the military to use its helicopters to fight fire on public and private land is being stymied by private companies that lease firefighting planes to state governments.
Throughout San Diego County, in the early phase of the most destructive fire in its history, homeowners had looked skyward for tankers and helicopters but didn't see any.
"The only chance to stop the fire was aerial tankers early on Sunday morning, backed by bulldozers, and that's what didn't happen," said Richard Carson, an economics professor at UC San Diego and an expert on public policies involving disaster response, including large-scale brush fires.
The answer to the lack of tankers in the fire's early hours lies in the overlapping responsibilities of local, state, federal and military agencies, and in a less-than-speedy process for requesting outside help. In addition, officials said state air equipment could not be deployed over San Diego in the first 48 hours of the fires because the skies were considered too smoky for safe flying.
San Diego's own fire helicopter, and many of its firefighters and fire engines, had been deployed beginning Friday to fight fires in San Bernardino and Ventura counties under a long-standing "mutual aid" agreement. State firefighting personnel and equipment were also focused on those blazes.
San Diego-based Navy helicopters, routinely used to fight fires on military property, were prepared to battle the Cedar fire on Sunday but remained grounded because state officials said the Navy pilots did not have appropriate training. The helicopters were flown to the Ramona airport, but pilots were denied permission to drop water.
To receive assistance from the U.S. Forest Service or the military, a governor must prove that local forces are inadequate, officials said.
City officials took a less confrontational tone than county officials. "I don't believe there were any significant delays," said San Diego Fire Chief Jeff Bowman. "When you have the volume of incidents [throughout Southern California] like we had, you cannot get the resources everywhere you need them."
Bowman defended the Southern California system of mutual aid as a model for the nation. And he said he was disappointed but not upset when told by state officials on Sunday that pilots of the state's air tankers had declared the air too smoky.
"That's their professional judgment and I accept it," said Bowman, flanked by San Diego Mayor Dick Murphy and Police Chief Bill Lansdowne.
Hunter said the "firefighting bureaucracy" tends to be slow to act and that officials are reluctant to criticize other fire officials.
Hunter said other members of Congress from Western states have been frustrated when asking state officials to request aerial tankers and helicopters from the U.S. military. "There's a reluctance among the firefighting bureaucracy at the state and federal levels to use military assets until they exhaust the last of private companies," Hunter said.
He said he has teamed with a congressman from Colorado to seek a change in federal law that would speed the process of getting military craft to fight fires. The private companies that lease and operate aerial tankers are opposed to such a move, Hunter said.
Delay in Aerial Water Drops Is Criticized
Some officials in San Diego County blame the Davis administration.
Overlapping jurisdictions hindered early responses.
SAN DIEGO — As fire continued to destroy large portions of San Diego County, the dispute between some local officials and the administration of Gov. Gray Davis intensified Tuesday over why aerial tankers and water-laden helicopters were not available in the first two days of the blaze.
County supervisors fumed that Davis was too slow in authorizing the use of state "air assets" to douse the fire and too timid in seeking federal assistance. Several had pleaded with the governor's staff last weekend to redirect state resources to San Diego and demand help from the federal government and military.
Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Alpine), whose home was destroyed by fire Monday, said federal legislation that would smooth the way for the military to use its helicopters to fight fire on public and private land is being stymied by private companies that lease firefighting planes to state governments.
Throughout San Diego County, in the early phase of the most destructive fire in its history, homeowners had looked skyward for tankers and helicopters but didn't see any.
"The only chance to stop the fire was aerial tankers early on Sunday morning, backed by bulldozers, and that's what didn't happen," said Richard Carson, an economics professor at UC San Diego and an expert on public policies involving disaster response, including large-scale brush fires.
The answer to the lack of tankers in the fire's early hours lies in the overlapping responsibilities of local, state, federal and military agencies, and in a less-than-speedy process for requesting outside help. In addition, officials said state air equipment could not be deployed over San Diego in the first 48 hours of the fires because the skies were considered too smoky for safe flying.
San Diego's own fire helicopter, and many of its firefighters and fire engines, had been deployed beginning Friday to fight fires in San Bernardino and Ventura counties under a long-standing "mutual aid" agreement. State firefighting personnel and equipment were also focused on those blazes.
San Diego-based Navy helicopters, routinely used to fight fires on military property, were prepared to battle the Cedar fire on Sunday but remained grounded because state officials said the Navy pilots did not have appropriate training. The helicopters were flown to the Ramona airport, but pilots were denied permission to drop water.
To receive assistance from the U.S. Forest Service or the military, a governor must prove that local forces are inadequate, officials said.
City officials took a less confrontational tone than county officials. "I don't believe there were any significant delays," said San Diego Fire Chief Jeff Bowman. "When you have the volume of incidents [throughout Southern California] like we had, you cannot get the resources everywhere you need them."
Bowman defended the Southern California system of mutual aid as a model for the nation. And he said he was disappointed but not upset when told by state officials on Sunday that pilots of the state's air tankers had declared the air too smoky.
"That's their professional judgment and I accept it," said Bowman, flanked by San Diego Mayor Dick Murphy and Police Chief Bill Lansdowne.
Hunter said the "firefighting bureaucracy" tends to be slow to act and that officials are reluctant to criticize other fire officials.
Hunter said other members of Congress from Western states have been frustrated when asking state officials to request aerial tankers and helicopters from the U.S. military. "There's a reluctance among the firefighting bureaucracy at the state and federal levels to use military assets until they exhaust the last of private companies," Hunter said.
He said he has teamed with a congressman from Colorado to seek a change in federal law that would speed the process of getting military craft to fight fires. The private companies that lease and operate aerial tankers are opposed to such a move, Hunter said.
Gatvol
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I guess its a matter of who do we thank for the Bureaucratic nightmare in California. Its awfully easy to blame CDF. Im not ready to do that. Im sure when all is said and done it SHOULD fall back on the Previous Governor and his attitude towards the state. He would rather fund Illegal Alien schooling and medical needs than CDF.
Besides all the crap we can do to point blame. I have NEVER seen a larger fire operation run smoothly untill it came time for mop up. One I will never forget is a rush to sling two 55 gal drums of fuel to a fire line for a Cat that was cutting brush. We jumped through our butts to get the fuel out there. Later that night I saw a truck bringing the fuel back as they didnt need it....Just a small example of a big Rat F**K.
Besides all the crap we can do to point blame. I have NEVER seen a larger fire operation run smoothly untill it came time for mop up. One I will never forget is a rush to sling two 55 gal drums of fuel to a fire line for a Cat that was cutting brush. We jumped through our butts to get the fuel out there. Later that night I saw a truck bringing the fuel back as they didnt need it....Just a small example of a big Rat F**K.
Gatvol
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Just for a small update for those across the Pond. The visibility here in Vegas has gone down in the last few hours from SMOKE. The sun now gives that Orange tint that I have seen so many times. Those fires are over 200 miles away, just to give you an idea how large they are.
Rather than second guess all the failures on this mess we should take a minute to see if in some way we can help those who may not be covered by Insurance and who need some help until the right help arrives. Im not a Red cross fan, but you may consider donations to them EARMARKED for the victims or some other method of help.
Its gonna be a big mess for years to come.....
Another Update: Most of the Helicopter Tour operators here in VEGAS.....Yes, Las Vegas are shut down this afternoon because visibility in Class B is 1 3/4 Mile IFR......In SMOKE. Now thats a first
Rather than second guess all the failures on this mess we should take a minute to see if in some way we can help those who may not be covered by Insurance and who need some help until the right help arrives. Im not a Red cross fan, but you may consider donations to them EARMARKED for the victims or some other method of help.
Its gonna be a big mess for years to come.....
Another Update: Most of the Helicopter Tour operators here in VEGAS.....Yes, Las Vegas are shut down this afternoon because visibility in Class B is 1 3/4 Mile IFR......In SMOKE. Now thats a first
Last edited by B Sousa; 30th Oct 2003 at 05:24.
Flying Lawyer
FYI, the city of San Diego is actually is a lot larger than the area you have indicated. The Northern boundry, which is where I live goes all the way North to just short of Escondido. If you pointing out the downtown area, then you were correct.
FYI, the city of San Diego is actually is a lot larger than the area you have indicated. The Northern boundry, which is where I live goes all the way North to just short of Escondido. If you pointing out the downtown area, then you were correct.
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Just to give some update on the fires from where I am at. I can not comment on the San Diego fires or the ones in San Bernardino, although from my house the smoke plume is awsome.
The one that started as the "Val Verde" fire, then became the "Simi Valley" fire is in my patrol area. Yesterday was the first day I was involved in helping in evacuations and crowd control. My department does not allow us, and does not give us the capability to drop water (a real thorn in the side for us). So far no one can stop the fire as it keeps changing direction. And as of yesterday, the winds went from an offshore to an onshore causing the fire to go in yet another direction.
I was operating in visibility of only a couple of miles or less in smoke and ash. There is no way that the couple of bombers on this fire could get into most of it. The smoke above us was to great. The county had 4-5 helicopters (including both Firehawks), and also two National Gaurd Blackhawks. They were doing a great job of protecting the house's. If they can stop it today, then we should be fine, but if not, there is a trailer park in its path with very thick brush around it.
I have spent the last several months searching the mountains and hills around this area for funny green stuff growing, and can tell you, the brush is very very thick everywhere. Most area's you can not land even with a 500 on high skids due to the thick brush. Hopefully with the temps droping about 5-10C by tomorrow and the marine layer comming in, they can get a handle on the fires.
To give an example of the smoke even away from the fires, I was flying to my home base which is about 30 miles from the fires. Due to mountains inbetween, I usually fly along a freeway through the mountains at night to have something flat under me. The pass I go through is about 2K feet higher and 25 miles from the fire. The visibility was still less then one mile. I am not sure how high it went as anything over 500 agl the freeway became a little to hard to see. And this was at night.
The one that started as the "Val Verde" fire, then became the "Simi Valley" fire is in my patrol area. Yesterday was the first day I was involved in helping in evacuations and crowd control. My department does not allow us, and does not give us the capability to drop water (a real thorn in the side for us). So far no one can stop the fire as it keeps changing direction. And as of yesterday, the winds went from an offshore to an onshore causing the fire to go in yet another direction.
I was operating in visibility of only a couple of miles or less in smoke and ash. There is no way that the couple of bombers on this fire could get into most of it. The smoke above us was to great. The county had 4-5 helicopters (including both Firehawks), and also two National Gaurd Blackhawks. They were doing a great job of protecting the house's. If they can stop it today, then we should be fine, but if not, there is a trailer park in its path with very thick brush around it.
I have spent the last several months searching the mountains and hills around this area for funny green stuff growing, and can tell you, the brush is very very thick everywhere. Most area's you can not land even with a 500 on high skids due to the thick brush. Hopefully with the temps droping about 5-10C by tomorrow and the marine layer comming in, they can get a handle on the fires.
To give an example of the smoke even away from the fires, I was flying to my home base which is about 30 miles from the fires. Due to mountains inbetween, I usually fly along a freeway through the mountains at night to have something flat under me. The pass I go through is about 2K feet higher and 25 miles from the fire. The visibility was still less then one mile. I am not sure how high it went as anything over 500 agl the freeway became a little to hard to see. And this was at night.
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West Coast
You're right. I used 'city' as we'd use it here, I should have said 'downtown'. I think of being clear of the "city" (British sense) North of the 8, or thereabouts.
As GB Shaw said, we're two countries divided by a common language.
I thought the fire burning from the East along Miramar Air Station all the way to the 805-52 freeway interchange looked very worrying for a time. If that had got into Rose(?) Canyon it could have burned through towards La Jolla, University City and Clairemont. A friend spoke to some firefighters who said they were desperate to contain it at the 805 because there was a real danger it would burn everything in its path all the way to the ocean.
You're right. I used 'city' as we'd use it here, I should have said 'downtown'. I think of being clear of the "city" (British sense) North of the 8, or thereabouts.
As GB Shaw said, we're two countries divided by a common language.
I thought the fire burning from the East along Miramar Air Station all the way to the 805-52 freeway interchange looked very worrying for a time. If that had got into Rose(?) Canyon it could have burned through towards La Jolla, University City and Clairemont. A friend spoke to some firefighters who said they were desperate to contain it at the 805 because there was a real danger it would burn everything in its path all the way to the ocean.
Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 30th Oct 2003 at 07:04.
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Nine choppers based at Santa Paula Airport await orders
By Michelle L. Klampe, [email protected]
October 29, 2003
Chris Shaw spent most of Tuesday morning hanging out of a Blackhawk helicopter, unleashing 770-gallon buckets of water just in front of a raging wildfire and hoping to halt the quickly spreading flames.
"You actually see the spray. It takes one or two seconds for all of the water to come out of the bucket," said Shaw, a sergeant with a California National Guard Army unit from Los Alamitos. "We want to drop it in the green (unburned areas) and saturate it as much as we can with water."
Shaw and about 20 people from Los Alamitos were called into action over the weekend to help fight the Simi fire.
Since Sunday, he's been flying missions out of the Santa Paula Airport, which has been transformed into base camp for nine helicopters.
"The concentration today was the big head of the Simi fire. We were concentrated on the north ridge by Magic Mountain," Shaw said during a brief refueling stop at the airport about 1 p.m. "We saw huge flames. The fire was racing up. It comes down the ravines, then races up. It's truly unbelievable."
Airport officials closed the airport so it could be used as a helicopter base. Several firetrucks, refuelers and recreational vehicles -- used for communication and support for the helicopters -- now line the runway in front of the airport.
Jim Fuller, a fire captain with the California Department of Forestry, serves as helicopter coordinator at the site. When an incident commander calls for helicopters, Fuller sends them out.
At his disposal Tuesday were four Ventura County helicopters, one from Santa Barbara County, three Blackhawks from Los Alamitos and one private helicopter. Most of the helicopters use buckets to scoop water from golf course and agricultural ponds and drop it in front of the fire. Sometimes they are used for coordination or scouting.
"We've dropped over 200,000 gallons of water over the last two days out here," Fuller said. "With the helibase, it's either feast or famine. You're either working really hard or trying to find something to do."
Pilots and their air crews may have long wait periods between runs if the winds are too strong or if the needs on the fire line change. Tuesday morning, crews from Los Angeles County were covering the Simi fire, and the Piru fire was moving away from Fillmore, so the Santa Paula crews didn't have much to do.
"It's been pretty low key. Right now we're waiting to possibly be switched" to another fire, said Steve Campfield, pilot of the Santa Barbara County Fire Department helicopter. A short time later, he was called back to work, making water drops on the north flank of the Simi fire.
"We were up in the air almost five hours yesterday. We were what they call a helicopter coordinator," Campfield said before he flew out again. "When there's many other aircraft in the air, the most important thing is to keep a separation from the (other) aircraft."
A patch of grass in the shade in front of the airport office has become the resting grounds for the helicopter crews and their support teams -- about 45 people in all.
Ground crews can sit idle for lengthy stretches. Much of their work, including inspection and maintenance, is done after the helicopters are done flying for the day.
"I'm tired of working on my tan," joked Jeff Ratkovich, a National Guard sergeant and crew chief, while he waited for the Blackhawks to return for refueling and inspection.
He said he enjoys the camaraderie at the base camp but also understands the importance of the work he and his colleagues are doing.
"I'm thankful that we're in a position to make a difference and help," Ratkovich said.
"We're doing something for our country. That's exactly what the National Guard is supposed to do."
By Michelle L. Klampe, [email protected]
October 29, 2003
Chris Shaw spent most of Tuesday morning hanging out of a Blackhawk helicopter, unleashing 770-gallon buckets of water just in front of a raging wildfire and hoping to halt the quickly spreading flames.
"You actually see the spray. It takes one or two seconds for all of the water to come out of the bucket," said Shaw, a sergeant with a California National Guard Army unit from Los Alamitos. "We want to drop it in the green (unburned areas) and saturate it as much as we can with water."
Shaw and about 20 people from Los Alamitos were called into action over the weekend to help fight the Simi fire.
Since Sunday, he's been flying missions out of the Santa Paula Airport, which has been transformed into base camp for nine helicopters.
"The concentration today was the big head of the Simi fire. We were concentrated on the north ridge by Magic Mountain," Shaw said during a brief refueling stop at the airport about 1 p.m. "We saw huge flames. The fire was racing up. It comes down the ravines, then races up. It's truly unbelievable."
Airport officials closed the airport so it could be used as a helicopter base. Several firetrucks, refuelers and recreational vehicles -- used for communication and support for the helicopters -- now line the runway in front of the airport.
Jim Fuller, a fire captain with the California Department of Forestry, serves as helicopter coordinator at the site. When an incident commander calls for helicopters, Fuller sends them out.
At his disposal Tuesday were four Ventura County helicopters, one from Santa Barbara County, three Blackhawks from Los Alamitos and one private helicopter. Most of the helicopters use buckets to scoop water from golf course and agricultural ponds and drop it in front of the fire. Sometimes they are used for coordination or scouting.
"We've dropped over 200,000 gallons of water over the last two days out here," Fuller said. "With the helibase, it's either feast or famine. You're either working really hard or trying to find something to do."
Pilots and their air crews may have long wait periods between runs if the winds are too strong or if the needs on the fire line change. Tuesday morning, crews from Los Angeles County were covering the Simi fire, and the Piru fire was moving away from Fillmore, so the Santa Paula crews didn't have much to do.
"It's been pretty low key. Right now we're waiting to possibly be switched" to another fire, said Steve Campfield, pilot of the Santa Barbara County Fire Department helicopter. A short time later, he was called back to work, making water drops on the north flank of the Simi fire.
"We were up in the air almost five hours yesterday. We were what they call a helicopter coordinator," Campfield said before he flew out again. "When there's many other aircraft in the air, the most important thing is to keep a separation from the (other) aircraft."
A patch of grass in the shade in front of the airport office has become the resting grounds for the helicopter crews and their support teams -- about 45 people in all.
Ground crews can sit idle for lengthy stretches. Much of their work, including inspection and maintenance, is done after the helicopters are done flying for the day.
"I'm tired of working on my tan," joked Jeff Ratkovich, a National Guard sergeant and crew chief, while he waited for the Blackhawks to return for refueling and inspection.
He said he enjoys the camaraderie at the base camp but also understands the importance of the work he and his colleagues are doing.
"I'm thankful that we're in a position to make a difference and help," Ratkovich said.
"We're doing something for our country. That's exactly what the National Guard is supposed to do."
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Santa Paula's a good way North of LA. The shortage of air support seems to be in San Diego, about 100+ miles South of LA.
==============
Oregon Statesmanjournal online report
Seven-member Oregon National Guard crew and a specialized firefighting helicopter to Southern California.
The crew’s mission is to operate the National Guard’s UH60 Firehawk Helicopter and help with the deadly California wildfires.
The Oregon National Guard is the only Guard unit in the country with a UH60 Firehawk. Oregon got the helicopter through arrangements with the Department of Defense and Sikorsky Helicopter Co., at no cost to the state.
Since Oct. 21, at least 10 wind-driven wildfires — many of them arson-caused — have rampaged through Southern California, demolishing neighborhoods, gutting businesses and blackening more than half a million acres of land from the Mexican border to the Ventura-Los Angeles county line.
Nearly 1,600 homes have been destroyed, and 10,000 firefighters were on the front lines throughout the state.
Authorities say the death toll from the fires is 16.
Firehawk at Salem River Front Park, Oregon
==============
Oregon Statesmanjournal online report
Oregon to lend firefighting helicopter to California
Seven-member Oregon National Guard crew and a specialized firefighting helicopter to Southern California.
The crew’s mission is to operate the National Guard’s UH60 Firehawk Helicopter and help with the deadly California wildfires.
The Oregon National Guard is the only Guard unit in the country with a UH60 Firehawk. Oregon got the helicopter through arrangements with the Department of Defense and Sikorsky Helicopter Co., at no cost to the state.
Since Oct. 21, at least 10 wind-driven wildfires — many of them arson-caused — have rampaged through Southern California, demolishing neighborhoods, gutting businesses and blackening more than half a million acres of land from the Mexican border to the Ventura-Los Angeles county line.
Nearly 1,600 homes have been destroyed, and 10,000 firefighters were on the front lines throughout the state.
Authorities say the death toll from the fires is 16.
Last edited by Heliport; 30th Oct 2003 at 08:30.
Flying Lawyer
When I heard on the radio that the firefighters were going to make a stand and not let the fire past the 805 freeway I surely thought it was a slip of the tongue. No way a fire originating in the sticks of Ramona could make it all the way to Clairmont Mesa. An involuntary shudder hit me when I found out they hadn't mis- spoke. The fire very easily could have made it to coast had the Santa Ana winds winds really been blowing. Plenty of fuel for it to follow the 52 freeway all the way to the 5 freeway and in to La Jolla. The fire line from one end to another must be 40 miles.
When I heard on the radio that the firefighters were going to make a stand and not let the fire past the 805 freeway I surely thought it was a slip of the tongue. No way a fire originating in the sticks of Ramona could make it all the way to Clairmont Mesa. An involuntary shudder hit me when I found out they hadn't mis- spoke. The fire very easily could have made it to coast had the Santa Ana winds winds really been blowing. Plenty of fuel for it to follow the 52 freeway all the way to the 5 freeway and in to La Jolla. The fire line from one end to another must be 40 miles.
Dropping 1,000 gals
Join Date: Oct 2001
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I was talking to Lee Benson yesterday at LACoFD Air Ops and he said that the whole unit was laughing like heck yesterday as the media was saying that the black sludge coming out of the belly tank was some new sort of fire retardant that they were using.
They didnt have the heart to tell the reporter that it was just Mud.
They didnt have the heart to tell the reporter that it was just Mud.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Interesting story being carried by Associated Press about the first helicopter pilot to see the patch of flames that would become the catastrophic Cedar Fire. Raises some potentially interesting discussion points:
"Pilot Dave Weldon told The Associated Press on Thursday he saw state firefighting planes on a nearby airstrip as he approached the mountains at 110 mph. He called down for help because his dispatcher had relayed reports of smoke in the area, but got no response.
"That was around 5:45 p.m. A few minutes later, he spotted smoke from the fire, then only about 50 yards on each side and not spreading.
"As he steadied his helicopter against wind gusts, Weldon's concern mounted. Just before landing, he called for backup, asking another county helicopter to speed to the scene with its 120-gallon water dump bucket. And he urged the dispatcher to contact state firefighters and renew his request for air tankers.
"The problem was that under state safety guidelines, no flights are allowed to go up into waning daylight. On Saturday, the cutoff was 5:36 p.m., said Capt. Ron Serabia, the CDF official who coordinates the 12 tankers and 10 helicopters now battling the 272,000-acre blaze."
See more at: http://www.9news.com/storyfull.aspx?storyid=20403
"Pilot Dave Weldon told The Associated Press on Thursday he saw state firefighting planes on a nearby airstrip as he approached the mountains at 110 mph. He called down for help because his dispatcher had relayed reports of smoke in the area, but got no response.
"That was around 5:45 p.m. A few minutes later, he spotted smoke from the fire, then only about 50 yards on each side and not spreading.
"As he steadied his helicopter against wind gusts, Weldon's concern mounted. Just before landing, he called for backup, asking another county helicopter to speed to the scene with its 120-gallon water dump bucket. And he urged the dispatcher to contact state firefighters and renew his request for air tankers.
"The problem was that under state safety guidelines, no flights are allowed to go up into waning daylight. On Saturday, the cutoff was 5:36 p.m., said Capt. Ron Serabia, the CDF official who coordinates the 12 tankers and 10 helicopters now battling the 272,000-acre blaze."
See more at: http://www.9news.com/storyfull.aspx?storyid=20403
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Well to the best of my knowledge the fires around the San Diego area are all but out. We have had some rain which has helped. Mother nature works in funny ways.
The area is still under restricted flight rules, and today it is deemed safe enough for El Presidente and Arnie to come and have a look at the aftermath.
For some shots of the fire take a look at
http://danmegna.com/CFire02/index.htm
I also have some shots taken by a guy who had (or rather still has, but it's now all black) 1000 acres just south of Palomar mountain. He stayed up there and saved his house and outbuildings, but everything else is toast. I haven't seen them yet, but apparently he has some great pictures of a Skycrane filling up out of his trout lake.
V's link is worth seeing - these are some of the shots.
The area is still under restricted flight rules, and today it is deemed safe enough for El Presidente and Arnie to come and have a look at the aftermath.
For some shots of the fire take a look at
http://danmegna.com/CFire02/index.htm
I also have some shots taken by a guy who had (or rather still has, but it's now all black) 1000 acres just south of Palomar mountain. He stayed up there and saved his house and outbuildings, but everything else is toast. I haven't seen them yet, but apparently he has some great pictures of a Skycrane filling up out of his trout lake.
V's link is worth seeing - these are some of the shots.
Last edited by Heliport; 6th Nov 2003 at 18:26.