Robinson Safety Courses
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I used to "chop" throttle all the time on my students. But i had my limits, never under 50kts, never under 1500ft AGL, and never during a climb (high MAP). I never had any problems. You just have to be prepared to dump the lever bloody quickly if the students doesn't react, and also haul the cyclic back to get the RPM back in the green. And you also have to fully prepare the student by 'building up' to the engine failure (announce, lower, and roll off SLOWLY the first few times)
International Safety course
Hello guys,
I have just successfully hosted an international course in Ireland with Tim Tucker, we had a great time and it's was an absolute pleasure to have the man here. We have made 40 pilots a lot safer and it's great for Irish airspace. The factory is just too far away , the course takes almost a week out there but you will need a week to recover from flights and booze.
Scotland is next for Tim's Celtic tour and I'm sure it'll be a success.
I have just successfully hosted an international course in Ireland with Tim Tucker, we had a great time and it's was an absolute pleasure to have the man here. We have made 40 pilots a lot safer and it's great for Irish airspace. The factory is just too far away , the course takes almost a week out there but you will need a week to recover from flights and booze.
Scotland is next for Tim's Celtic tour and I'm sure it'll be a success.
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Robinson Factory Safety Course
I have been accepted onto this course and given the 3rd to 7th of November as my dates - I am looking forward to it no end!! 
(The better half is looking forward to second week in the states, which mainly involves shopping by the looks of it - Pleasure & Pain me thinks!!)
But... the question is: can anyone recomend any hotels around Torrence; either on the Robbo supplied list or otherwise. We will have a car, so anywhere within 30 minutes / 1 hour drive would be good. There is me, management and our baby (who will be 1 then).
Also, any suggestions on things to go and do while over there in the evening or on spare days after the course - much appreciated!
HC.
(The better half is looking forward to second week in the states, which mainly involves shopping by the looks of it - Pleasure & Pain me thinks!!)
But... the question is: can anyone recomend any hotels around Torrence; either on the Robbo supplied list or otherwise. We will have a car, so anywhere within 30 minutes / 1 hour drive would be good. There is me, management and our baby (who will be 1 then).
Also, any suggestions on things to go and do while over there in the evening or on spare days after the course - much appreciated!
HC.
Torrance is not the showbiz end of town............having said that, it's not far from good neighbourhoods like Manhattan Beach. We stayed at the Holiday Inn Torrance - very comfortable executive hotel with a useful breakfast bar in the lobby for those 0630 coffees on the run. (The Safety Course starts early.) This was also the Virgin Atlantic crew hotel - so some good nights jawing around the open hearth fire in the outdoors near the bar. It's interesting how many VA crew are into helicopters.
Rent a car from Hertz (right near the factory) and make sure you get the GPS. There is no way to find your way around the LA basin without it. The GPS also has "places of interest" on it - so no shortage of good things to see.
I would describe Torrance as homely but industrial. It's the southern end of LA and between it and the centre are some of the worst 'hoods. Set the GPS to "freeways" and you won't go wrong.
Personally I preferred the coastal communities away from LA/Hollywood.
Rent a car from Hertz (right near the factory) and make sure you get the GPS. There is no way to find your way around the LA basin without it. The GPS also has "places of interest" on it - so no shortage of good things to see.
I would describe Torrance as homely but industrial. It's the southern end of LA and between it and the centre are some of the worst 'hoods. Set the GPS to "freeways" and you won't go wrong.
Personally I preferred the coastal communities away from LA/Hollywood.
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Hotel suggestions
Helicraig,
The ramada inn that robinson suggests is a decent hotel, nothing fancy but clean and right across the street. I'd have no problems staying there again, i think it was about 70-75 dollars a night when I stayed there. (2006)
My personal recommendation would be to drive 20 minutes north on pacific coast highway and stay at the Hotel Hermosa in Hermosa Beach. Its easy to find, right on PCH, and has a ocean view. Very nicely decorated, clean rooms, walking distance to the beach. It was around 95/night when I stayed there, but that was on a sunday so I don't know how much the rates fluctuate.
Hope that helps, enjoy your time there!
Mike
The ramada inn that robinson suggests is a decent hotel, nothing fancy but clean and right across the street. I'd have no problems staying there again, i think it was about 70-75 dollars a night when I stayed there. (2006)
My personal recommendation would be to drive 20 minutes north on pacific coast highway and stay at the Hotel Hermosa in Hermosa Beach. Its easy to find, right on PCH, and has a ocean view. Very nicely decorated, clean rooms, walking distance to the beach. It was around 95/night when I stayed there, but that was on a sunday so I don't know how much the rates fluctuate.
Hope that helps, enjoy your time there!
Mike
The Ramada Inn is a decent hotel, and it's within walking distance to the airport.
They have breakfast snacks - Coffee & Doughnuts - at the safety course, so you don't really need a hotel with a breakfast bar (just don't eat in the classroom, or Frank will hit you over the head with a rotor blade)
If you are going to spent any time in LA, and want to see something other than KTOA, you need a car. There is just no other way to get anywhere in that city.
They have breakfast snacks - Coffee & Doughnuts - at the safety course, so you don't really need a hotel with a breakfast bar (just don't eat in the classroom, or Frank will hit you over the head with a rotor blade)
If you are going to spent any time in LA, and want to see something other than KTOA, you need a car. There is just no other way to get anywhere in that city.
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Since you have got management and child with you I would recommend to go to the Hermosa beach hotel since Torrance ain't exactly buzzing I went in 2001 and stayed at the Ramada across the street. The evenings will be long if you had to hang around Torrance. It drove me to buying a japanese car mag for £30 and I can not read japanese.
Is it just rumor who owns pathfinder or is their some paper trail ????? my attorney would love to know, been fighting with pathfinder for 3 years
Here
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RSC - Worthwhile ??
I along with about 20 others did a RSC a few years ago here in Oz. I know that everyone who did it thought it was a complete waste of time and money. It was a one day course and cost about $400 each, with no flying component.
The instructor spoke about himself and his aviation achievements for the first two hours, then touched on a few relevant topics before showing us a slide show of R22 crashes pictures (to which he had no knowledge - how or why).
Having said all that, I have heard great reports of other RS Courses.
Is RS - Robinson Safety or Rat S#@& ??????? Sorry couldn't resist.
The instructor spoke about himself and his aviation achievements for the first two hours, then touched on a few relevant topics before showing us a slide show of R22 crashes pictures (to which he had no knowledge - how or why).
Having said all that, I have heard great reports of other RS Courses.
Is RS - Robinson Safety or Rat S#@& ??????? Sorry couldn't resist.
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I was at the Oct 20 RSC in Torrance. Parts of it were great, other parts.... not so much. The first two days were Tim Tucker speaking about stuff that I, as a CPL (H) was already quite familiar with. The nice thing about how it was laid out was that it made more sense for my CFI book I'm putting together. We had one of the maintenance guys for the third day. That was pretty informative, actually. That day gave me a bit more info as to why I should check what I'm checking and what other stuff I should look for that wasn't on my preflight checklist.
The last day gets a paragraph all to itself. Bob Muse did our last bit of Safety Course, and I think he drilled the "safety" part of Safety Course into my head more so than anyone else. It wasn't what he covered so much as how he covered it. "Failure to plan is a planned failure" was the mantra he drilled into my head. Essentially, know the POH, know the EP's, recognize the symptoms, but know that certain scenarios will come up where you might want to end up doing something differently.
My main gripe about the Safety Course is that they didn't go more in-depth into the mx side. I'm fairly comfortable with the aerodynamics of VRS or an autorotation, etc. What I'm not as comfortable with is how the innards of the robbie work. I'd love to take the Mx Safety Course, but I'm not an A&P and have no plans on becoming one. I'd just like to be intimately familiar with the helicopter I'll be flying for the next 1000 hours.
I stayed at the Ramada, which was convenient for the course, but not really so for sightseeing unless you want to limit yourself to Hermosa Beach. Rent a car, have GPS and bring a laptop with wifi if you're going to stay at the Ramada. Wifi was spotty at best through their server. There's a starbucks 2-3 blocks west on crenshaw that I ended up using (both as an early morning hangover cure and a wifi spot) because I couldn't get wifi in my room.
The last day gets a paragraph all to itself. Bob Muse did our last bit of Safety Course, and I think he drilled the "safety" part of Safety Course into my head more so than anyone else. It wasn't what he covered so much as how he covered it. "Failure to plan is a planned failure" was the mantra he drilled into my head. Essentially, know the POH, know the EP's, recognize the symptoms, but know that certain scenarios will come up where you might want to end up doing something differently.
My main gripe about the Safety Course is that they didn't go more in-depth into the mx side. I'm fairly comfortable with the aerodynamics of VRS or an autorotation, etc. What I'm not as comfortable with is how the innards of the robbie work. I'd love to take the Mx Safety Course, but I'm not an A&P and have no plans on becoming one. I'd just like to be intimately familiar with the helicopter I'll be flying for the next 1000 hours.
I stayed at the Ramada, which was convenient for the course, but not really so for sightseeing unless you want to limit yourself to Hermosa Beach. Rent a car, have GPS and bring a laptop with wifi if you're going to stay at the Ramada. Wifi was spotty at best through their server. There's a starbucks 2-3 blocks west on crenshaw that I ended up using (both as an early morning hangover cure and a wifi spot) because I couldn't get wifi in my room.
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I first went to the RHC safety course in 1987, and then again in 2006 because I started flying Pathfinder insured aircraft and they require the safety course within the previous six years if you want to instruct in their aircraft.
I have to say, it hadn't changed that much since 1987 except that it now covered the R44 as well.
The only other manufacturer course I've been to is the Bell Helicopter school. Of the two, I think Bell is a much better course. It focuses on every detail of the mechanics of the helicopter. You come away with a very complete understanding of the machine.
The RHC safety course, on the other hand, is 50% self serving propaganda (why do they need to convince us that the piston engine is reliable? We're obviously already flying their product if we go to their course). The other half is the company opinion on how pilots crash Robbys. Okay, that part is useful, although still comes across as pretty defensive on the part of the company. Partially it's the pilot makeup - the Bell course was all professional pilots the week I was there, Robinson is 85% brand new pilots.
The flying I did with RHC in 1987 was very very good. The guy I flew with was a very high time experienced guy, and there was nothing he wasn't willing to show me. I have bumped into the guy over the years and still have tremendous respect for him. My experience in 2006 was not nearly as good. The instructor was relatively low time, and seemed inexperienced. Also, I told him I wanted to spend quite a bit of time on the preflight knowing that I would be teaching it to students when I got home. The best I could do was get a 5 minute preflight out of him (it's just like an R22 he kept saying). He really just wanted to go flying. I kept trying to get him to talk about the best way to give throttle chops (okay, simulated engine failures!) to students. All he would repeat is that he never gives throttle chops. How about just roll the throttle to 90%? "I don't do that". In his opinion the only thing to do was to announce "simulated engine failure" and wait for the student to lower the collective. Not a very realistic technique! (but then, Robinson engines never fail, do they?)
Compare that to the preflight in Bell school where we spent a half a day going over a partially assembled helicopter so that we could get at the guts of it and see everything about how it was put together. Also, the instructors at Bell were tremendously more experienced than the Robinson instructors. Granted, you were paying top dollar at Bell and the hour at Robinson is practically given away (why not? It's being paid for by Robinson's customers, not the factory!).
On a scale of 1-10, I would rate Bell school as a 9.8 and Robinson as a 6. The course has not changed much over the years and could really do with a tune-up.
Pat Cox is a tremendous speaker and I enjoy the time he teaches the class, but I would like to see the group break up and spend 1/2 day on preflight.
I would suggest that they break the student body up into two groups: new pilots and experienced pilots/CFIs. When I took the course in 1987 it was CFIs only. I'd kind of like to have a CFI only course where we can spend less time on newbie questions (which are legitimate for the newbie pilot to ask) and spend more time on topics of interest to experienced CPL+CFI pilots.
I would love to see more experienced instructors to fly with the CFIs.
Just my opinion....
I have to say, it hadn't changed that much since 1987 except that it now covered the R44 as well.
The only other manufacturer course I've been to is the Bell Helicopter school. Of the two, I think Bell is a much better course. It focuses on every detail of the mechanics of the helicopter. You come away with a very complete understanding of the machine.
The RHC safety course, on the other hand, is 50% self serving propaganda (why do they need to convince us that the piston engine is reliable? We're obviously already flying their product if we go to their course). The other half is the company opinion on how pilots crash Robbys. Okay, that part is useful, although still comes across as pretty defensive on the part of the company. Partially it's the pilot makeup - the Bell course was all professional pilots the week I was there, Robinson is 85% brand new pilots.
The flying I did with RHC in 1987 was very very good. The guy I flew with was a very high time experienced guy, and there was nothing he wasn't willing to show me. I have bumped into the guy over the years and still have tremendous respect for him. My experience in 2006 was not nearly as good. The instructor was relatively low time, and seemed inexperienced. Also, I told him I wanted to spend quite a bit of time on the preflight knowing that I would be teaching it to students when I got home. The best I could do was get a 5 minute preflight out of him (it's just like an R22 he kept saying). He really just wanted to go flying. I kept trying to get him to talk about the best way to give throttle chops (okay, simulated engine failures!) to students. All he would repeat is that he never gives throttle chops. How about just roll the throttle to 90%? "I don't do that". In his opinion the only thing to do was to announce "simulated engine failure" and wait for the student to lower the collective. Not a very realistic technique! (but then, Robinson engines never fail, do they?)
Compare that to the preflight in Bell school where we spent a half a day going over a partially assembled helicopter so that we could get at the guts of it and see everything about how it was put together. Also, the instructors at Bell were tremendously more experienced than the Robinson instructors. Granted, you were paying top dollar at Bell and the hour at Robinson is practically given away (why not? It's being paid for by Robinson's customers, not the factory!).
On a scale of 1-10, I would rate Bell school as a 9.8 and Robinson as a 6. The course has not changed much over the years and could really do with a tune-up.
Pat Cox is a tremendous speaker and I enjoy the time he teaches the class, but I would like to see the group break up and spend 1/2 day on preflight.
I would suggest that they break the student body up into two groups: new pilots and experienced pilots/CFIs. When I took the course in 1987 it was CFIs only. I'd kind of like to have a CFI only course where we can spend less time on newbie questions (which are legitimate for the newbie pilot to ask) and spend more time on topics of interest to experienced CPL+CFI pilots.
I would love to see more experienced instructors to fly with the CFIs.
Just my opinion....
Join Date: May 2009
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RHC Safety Course
Hi all, I am considering doing the RHC safety course soon for the R44. I hope to obtain the Instructor SFAR sign off during the flight portion if possible. I currently hold an SFAR sign off for the R22 and have approximately 45hrs in the R44. Will it be possible to do this in the same flight included in the course. My understanding is some of the factory instructors are also DPE's. If anyone else has obtained there SFAR signoff at RHC I would appreciate some feedback. Sorry if this has been covered before.
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I have had my R44 SFAR sign off (and a few others) at the RHC safety course a few years ago. I don't have my book here, so I can't check what exactly it was. Do not worry, just let the assigned factory pilot know what you need up-front.
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Robinson Safety Course
Hoping to attend the Robinson Factory course in the new year. I would appreciate feedback from those who have attended the course and typically what you felt you got out of it and how it benefitted your flying, also the hours flight with one of their instructors, is it a standard flight or do you get the opportunity to ask what you would like to cover??
Also as far as accommodation goes i have viewed the list on the Robbo website but if anyone can recommend somewhere else within walking distance and not expensive!
Also as far as accommodation goes i have viewed the list on the Robbo website but if anyone can recommend somewhere else within walking distance and not expensive!
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I have been to the 2 day course in Australia and unlike the other poster from Aus, I (and the other guys) found it really interesting and valuable. Sure, Tim Tucker likes to tell a few stories about himself - but a) with his background surely that's allowed ! and b) it makes the whole process more interesting.
The Q&A sessions were great as well.
I am led to believe that the Bell course is the best, but that's too far away for me to fly in my helicopter !
Highly recommended.
Arrrj
The Q&A sessions were great as well.
I am led to believe that the Bell course is the best, but that's too far away for me to fly in my helicopter !
Highly recommended.
Arrrj
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Afternoon all!
I'm planning on doing the RHC course in torrance later this year due to the pathfinder requirement.
Is there any reccomendations to do the R22 or R44 flight at the end of the course? Which would be more beneficial to a CFI teaching in both the R22 & R44??
I'm planning on doing the RHC course in torrance later this year due to the pathfinder requirement.
Is there any reccomendations to do the R22 or R44 flight at the end of the course? Which would be more beneficial to a CFI teaching in both the R22 & R44??