PPRuNe Forums - Whats the most 'interesting' approach?

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Whats the most 'interesting' approach?

Living close to Leeds Bradford, I've seen more than a few 'colourful' approaches (who did point that runway in that direction?). Any other approaches regularly made interesting by local weather etc.?

I've been stood in the tower at LBA and watched an AirUk F27 "CLIMB" to make the threshold of 28 !!!!

Have you seen the Leeds Bash in the PPRuNe Bashes Forum ?

Sedona in Arizona. Think miniature grand canyon type landscape. The runway is on top of a kind of plateau/pillar, with sttep sides. There is a slight upward slope to it with vegetaion on the small run-in. Leads to an interesting perspective on landing. Lets just say my instructor at the time, decided my approach was a little low and corrected it for me! :eek: :rolleyes: :D

Innsbruck (LOWI), in a B-720B...anyone remember Montana Aviation...that operated there? I knew guys from the company....what a sight for the big Boeing. Big time accuracy and proficiency required. NOT easy!

Well for me two spring to mind! Sumburgh,(EGPB)(The Scottish Kai Tak) :D Flying towards a cliff with a light house on it, then break left and land! The other has to be Corfu which is not very nice at night! This was my face the first time I saw the approach plates for Corfu --> :eek: Actually most of the Greek Islands hold their own little traps! Also as Innsbruk has already been mentioned, has to be Saltzburg. (LOWS)Very interesting go around...WATCH OUT FOR THAT CASTLE!!!! :D :D :D
Eff Oh.

Madeira on a windy day; but not half so interesting now, than it was with a 5,500ft runway.

Fogbound - Agree with you about Sedona. Don't forget also the fact that its bloody high so when you eventually come to take off again you feel like you're doing Mach 1!

Not sure about the most interesting approach, but for an interesting departure try one of the SIDs out of Moscow. Level at about 1500', turn right 90 degrees, then left 90 degrees. All the while some controller who sounds like hes got his head in a bucket will be passing you heights in metres. Fun...

I totally agree with you about Sedona. Here's a photo my passenger took on my third approach at Sedona following 2 go-arounds due to strong downdraughts on short finals. This one ended OK but firm! http://toandfromtheairport.tripod.com/Sedona.htm
http://toandfromtheairport.tripod.com/Sedona.htm

[ 10 November 2001: Message edited by: invalid entry ]

Sondrestrom Fjord, Greenland. The ILS parallels the cliff face at about 1/3rd of mile off the wingtip, DO NOT go left of the Loc! Do it in VMC first or you'll scare yourself when you pop out at DH!

Now that's "interesting" :D

i'm suprised no one's mentioned the Lukla appr in the milk river ravine in Nepal

less than 2000' cut out of sheer himalaya, 8°upslope, land uphill only, NO overshoot. elev around 9300' or so.

non deHavilland/Pilatus a/c need not apply!

[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: OnTheStep ]

...& speaking of mountains, what about Aspen, CO ? Outstanding scenery & tricky approach. Another favourite (in the bizjets industry) is Chicago, Meigs airfield, over lake Michigan... just beautiful. Unfortunately this great airfield is in danger, as officials have decided it should B closed next year. Hopefully it won't happen.

MF

A particularly interesting one would have been Seo d'Urgell in Spain. Built to be the airport for Andorra, it sits on the cut-off top of a hill in a fairly narrow valley surrounded by 8-10,000' mountains with a long drop off each end of the runway. Apparently the charter companies took one look at it and said "no thanks". There is a runway, terminal building, customs, car park etc. but it has never been used apart from a few light a/c and sunday markets. Spooky.

Surprised no one has mentioned the lovely(?)city of Nice. The last time I flew the circling approach onto 22, we had gusty strong turbulent winds off the mountains ( Seem to remember something about that from met lessons )whilst trying to avoid overflying the city and missing the hills just a short hop from the threshold. To add to the fun,they like a higher than normal approach path and give you no approach lighting.
Take off on 22 is also good fun. 90 degree turn at 400, plus stopping at 1500, so as not to hit the arrival traffic only 1000' above.

Isafjordur, Northwest Iceland. The airfield is situated on one side of a fjord, very close to steep mountainside (makes for interesting viewing as a pax on finals when looking out of the side window!)

For me it had to be Megeve, in France. 4800+ft elevation, 400m runway, with 102ft upslope, tight in a valley.

...oh, and I forgot the 3000ft cliff facing you as you land - it's just a couple of hundred metres beyond the end of the runway - one way in, one way out. Go-round? I think not! It's arrive-or-bust flying. Just thankful I went in a heli!

Holly Copter.

Courchevel has always looked interesting :eek:

Not really an approach, but I recall there was a DHC-7 service to one of the French altiports. V1 was brake release.

Landing requires application of full power at touchdown to make it up hill to the ramp.

As for Lukla with an 8 degree slope -- sounds like you could launch a glider without bothering with bungees. All you have to do is land it there :D

Agree with ConJam...Sondrestrom is unique. Sonde has killed its share of aviators; it's like flying down a pipe with a dead end.
Also Thule in low light conditions in Winter. Very weird colors, purple, etc. on approach.

OK that's it. OnTheStep wins this hands down!

Hands down? This must score a few points...
http://members.aon.at/slenz/graphics/COURCH3.jpg

Wow,

All interesting pictures/stories. I am not exactly well travelled, so i can only speak for my local and the interesting approaches there. Which are non.

Well, on a heavy headwind day, i remember a Dash 8 doing a 10 - 12 degree glideslope, it looked like he was simply nose diving at the runway, also what i didn't realize was that when he touched down he was at least 40degrees off straight (eg, strong head/crosswind ;).

Regards

Quito, Ecuador, El 9228, Circle-To-Land Rwy 17...will get your adrenaline working. :cool:

[ 19 November 2001: Message edited by: GlueBall ]

One-way airstrips with slope of 8% or more, extracted from the PNG AIP. The slope, or strip gradient, is an average gradient only, unless otherwise indicated, based on a comparison of the elevation at each threshold, factored by the length of the runway (err... strip!). In most cases, the published slope gives little indication of the actual slope in any one section of the strip. There are many places where an individual segment of the strip has a slope of 15% or more and, in every case, the approach to land is "interesting".

The take-off can also be somewhat challenging.

AIRPORT/ELEVATION/LENGTH/SLOPE
ANGAI/731 M/430 M/10.00%
ARAGIP/505 M/585 M/8.00%
ARKOSAME/166 M/368 M/10.00%
BAMBU/2069 M/410 M/9.25%
BAWAN/1416 M/500 M/8.00%
BIANGABIP/294 M/420 M/10.00%
BIMIN/1755 M/585 M/10.00%
BODINUMU/1136 M/485 M/12.00%
BOIKOA/1468 M/600 M/10.00%
BUSILMIN/1593 M/500 M/12.00%
BU'U/1136 M/500 M/10.00%
DININGAT/1579 M/405 M/11.00%
DUSIN/1894 M/460 M/10.00%
EFOGI/1174 M/487 M/9.50%
ELIPTAMIN/1470 M/530 M/8.40%
ENGATI/1104 M/440 M/9.00%
ERUME/1990 M/480 M/9.80%
FANE/1344 M/451 M/12.00%
GUWASA/1505 M/600 M/10.00%
HABINA/1826 M/600 M/8.00%
HAUWABAGA/1353 M/414 M/12.00%
IMANI/1140 M/500 M/8.00%
IROPENA/1545 M/460 M/11.00%
ISAN/2127 M/410 M/8.00%
KABWUM/1323 M/610 M/10.30%
KAGI/1255 M/447 M/12.50%
KAINTIBA/613 M/450 M/13.30% (17.00% MAXIMUM)
KAMINA/646 M/350 M/9.00%
KAMULAI/1712 M/481 M/11.00%
KANAINJ/1218 M/388 M/13.00%
KASANOMBE/1732 M/457 M/11.30%
LANGIMAR/1525 M/504 M/9.00%
LEBAM/732 M/480 M/10.00%
LENGBATI/1727 M/468 M/10.00%
MAIMAFU/1568 M/442 M/14.20%
MASA/1755 M/385 M/10.00%
MATAK/1254 M/420 M/10.00%
MENGINA/1218 M/600 M/8.00%
MILEI/635 M/500 M/9.00%
NANKINA/1746 M/443 M/10.00%
NEGABO/1366 M/470 M/9.00%
OWENA/1640 M/400 M/10.00%
SAPMANGA/881 M/465 M/8.50%
SELBANG/1540 M/360 M/10.50%
SELTAMIN/1219 M/500 M/11.00%
SILA/762 M/455 M/9.30%
SIM/1652 M/425 M/10.00%
SIMBARI/1048 M/420 M/10.00%
SIMOGU/1444 M/520 M/10.00%
SISAMIN/533 M/436 M/8.6%
SOPU/1985 M/532 M/12.00%
SUMWARI/138 M/547 M/10.00%
TEKIN/1758 M/494 M/10.50%
TEP TEP/2124 M/640 M/10.00%
TOB/1428 M/460 M/9.00%
TUMOLBIL/1026 M/496 M/12.00%
UMBA/1767 M/487 M/12.00%
USARUMPIA/1730 M/457 M/9.50%
WANIKIPA/698 M/605 M/8.00%
WAU/1060 M/815 M/8.00%
WONENARA/1529 M/425 M/10.00%
YENKISA/1128 M/465 M/10.00%
YONGAI/1955 M/396 M/9.6%
ZENANG/964 M/487 M/9.00%
ZUEBAK/1020 M/420 M/10.90%

The above list represents 65 airstrips, out of a total of 504 airports of all types in the country. To save you the maths on that, 12.9% of all currently licensed airports in PNG have a published (average) slope of 8% or more. I didn't check to find out how many of these have had their licence pulled in the last 12 months or so, but you could safely say that at least 80% of the above list, probably as high as 90%, still have a current licence to operate.

On a day-to-day basis, the number of these that are actually in service is a somewhat more variable value. All the above airports - and 419 others - have natural surface runways, which suffer from heavy rain and, sometimes (?), maintenance neglect. But, if even only half of these airports are open on any given day, you'll find at least one service (of one sort or another) at each of them. Indeed, most of the 504 airports in PNG will see at least 3 flights each day, as a rough average.

We have quite a few level, or approximately level, surfaces and many of these will be found at places with very short strip lengths. These exist at all elevations from sea level to around 2100 metres elevation and higher, and these all have their own operational problems, which will include difficulty for approach as well as take-off.

A point that isn't quite so obvious, from any of the above data, is that some of the strips have a kink in them. For example, at Fane, the kink is at the top end, to avoid the missionary's residence. At Efogi (elev 1174 M, length 487 M, slope 5%), the kink is about half way along, to follow the ground contour. At Kanabea (elev 1307 M, length 540 M, slope 2.8%), the kink is also about half way along the strip, to avoid a rather large rock.

Most of our 484 so-called "minor ports" do not comply with ICAO, a point that should probably already be obvious anyway. All these airports are certified under a domestic classification that allows significant reduction in approach/take-off and fly-over area protection. The standard also allows for steeper climb-out gradients than those permitted in any of the ICAO classifications. In most places, the only gradient surveyed for take-off is 5% and, even then, only for a very short distance from the departure end of the runway.

We're mostly a bit too busy to take photos of these places during approach or take-off, but here's a few that might convey an idea of what these places look like from the air.

1. Ononge Airstrip, Goilala District, Central Province, PNG.
Average elevation : 5700 FT, length 500 metres, published slope 7.0%.
Land RWY 34, Take-off RWY 16.

http://www.fototime.com/96F42B89BF395D6/standard.jpg

It's actually straighter than it looks!

2. Tapini Airstrip, Goilala District, Central Province, PNG.
Average elevation : 3000 FT, length 915 metres, published slope 4.5%.
Land RWY 34, Take-off RWY 16.

http://www.fototime.com/A6CB13197ABC211/standard.jpg

3. Fane Airstrip, Goilala District, Central Province, PNG.
Average elevation : 4300 FT, length 451 metres, published slope 12.0%.
Land RWY 34, Take-off RWY 16.

http://www.fototime.com/799AAB9C6374DC4/standard.jpg

4. Extract from "One-way strips of Papua New Guinea" ... diagram of approach to, and departure from, Tapini Airstrip, Goilala District, Central Province, PNG. 1st Edition, copyright 1993, author : Yours truly!

http://www.fototime.com/07202CFA0267240/standard.jpg

I think OzExpat wins hands down!! :D :D Those of us who have been too or lived in PNG know all about the "interesting" strips and their approaches. But what OzExpat didn't metion was the fact that some of the cruise portions of flying in the highland reagions of PNG can also be "interesting"!! :eek:

Isn't that so OzExpat! ;) :D

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: OzPax1 ]

EGGD - a strong headwind should produce an approach with a HIGHER nose attitude rather than a steep nose down attitude. This is because the headwind reduces your groundspeed and increases the rate of descent - so to avoid going low you have to fly a lower descent rate which means higher nose attitude and more power.

A tail wind or a cocked up approach will lead to a steep nose down attitude.

Anyway, Hong Kong Kai Tak was always my favourite - it may not have been as awkward as some of the posted but I used to do it in 150 ton aeroplanes!

OzPax1... I don't have any photos of the aluminium-encrusted Tari Gap, so I guess that all the other readers will just have to take my word for it :eek:

moggie... touche! :)

OzExpat: Interesting info with dramatic photos. Good Job.

Flew into Quito this summer on a Continental 767 - scariest landing I have ever experienced. Practically buried the plane in the runway with severe rolling before nose-wheel touched down. Is it normally that bad?

Thanks for all the replies. I guess a gusty approach to Leeds ain't all that bad after all! :eek:

Quito takes a little getting used to.
Main thing is that it's at 9200 some feet so the speeds are nice and high. And you gottta nose over on final to ± 4° down slope to touch on quite an upslope.
The landing wasn't all your fault. There's this little bump in the runway that makes the smoothest touch feel hard.
Still, not as crazy as OZ's collection but you can do this in a big bird. (sorta).
:cool: :rolleyes:

hah! moggie and speedbird have touched upon the matter. you can take a 172 into any of those places shown. now try it in a BIG aircraft.
if you have not been to Samos greece in a big
aircraft then you are not authorised to comment. :eek:

Maiquetia, Venezuela! :D

The NDB-C into SVMI. After crossing 292-MIQ (at 11,000 feet) you fly outbound on the 062 QDR THEN make a left turn onto a heading of 242. When you cross the 170 QDR of MIQ you are at your MAP (1000 feet)... :eek:

(...btw, you have to look 72 degrees to your left in order to find the airport)

Ah Ozexpat what an effort!

My logbooks show I flew into 328 of those strips(and all those photograhed) over 6600 hours before joining Air Niugini. 30 degree heading change in the middle of take-off/landing at Kamulai!

I thought I'd seen high terrain but now I take a Falcon200 into Kathmandu 3 or 4 times a year, and Leezhing in SW China near Nepal, elevation 6500' with an instrument approach up a valley!

Lots of fond memories, and the occasional fright in that list!

Chuckles.

Narssasuaq, Southern Greenland. lies in a fjord, high glacier at eastern end, high rocks either side. One way in and one way out. Easy in Dash 7, interesting in Pa-31 full of ferry fuel in January. :p

Chuck... just realised that in my cut and paste haste in captioning the photos, I didn't change the runway numbers from 16/34 at Ononge! Tapini, as you'd recall, is 09/27 and Fane is 01/19. Sheesh, all that effort and I still managed to shoot meself in the foot!

Reckon that quick, casual 6600 hours or so set you up pretty well for Kathmandu and that place in China...!

Hey, you'll appreciate this better than most, I'm sure. Was talking today to the only bloke in recorded history to take a Boeing 707 to Mount Hagen! :eek:

Every country with bush flying has its own unique "interesting approaches", I used to fly in Venezuela in the "minas" that is the mines in jungle and I used to land in places where I am ashamed now to even tell about them; some were more like jeep trails in the middle of the amazon rain forrest, but..

In the other hand there is a a particular airport that is in the city of Merida, SVMD that is 5000 ft hight and 5350 ft long with an 5.7% slope, and there was a company who used to fly in with 727. I forgot to tell tha it was in the middle of a valley in the Andes mountains that go as high as 16000 ft in the surroundings!

interesting approaches....nothing quite as geographically challenging as some of the above mentioned....but, while flying for the UN in the congo, in the jungle on a short final, there was an antanov 24 on a short final from the other end...if anyone has flown with russians in the area you will know that playing chicken with them is not cool! anyway, we touched down first...kept power in case we had to do a touch and go, he finally went around about 20' above us and when he had finally shut down, myself and my fellow pilot thought we would ask him if he was monitoring our radio transmissions...as the back of the an 24 came down and a 100 governmnet troops marched out we thought...nope, he can do what ever he wants...we're out of here!

I wuz gonna say the second approach into my alternate would be pretty damn interesting, but after taking a look at some of the pics from PNG.... :eek:

I was going into Kamina(look at the Fane piccy and imagine it 25% shorter, 25% thinner with terrain each side and beyond just like what is beyond Fane) one day. The weather had been crap for over a week and no-one had been able to fly in there. Now on the first morning that they'd seen any sun for a week you would think they would expect a flight with all their 'stuff'.
Instead they decided that it was a good morning to mow the grass!
Having decided that, you would think that they would at least keep someone on watch for aircraft! Nope.
Now Kamina is in the dead :( end of a very narrow valley requiring a 3 or 4 nm final approach, no possibility of GA from about 2nm. it was still a very cloudy/foggy morning making a high 'circuit' above the valley impossible.
I flew up the valley configuring as I went( you know power back as you pass that rock outcrop, flaps down at that tree) and as I got close I saw what appeared to be a piece of flapping material in the middle of the strip about 30m in from the cliff.
Twas said non-reflective dude mowing the lawn :eek: Facing up the hill with an old 2 stroke mower :eek: .
It was way to late for a GA, even if cloud wasn't making the valley tighter!
Well I waggled my wings, flashed the landing lights and throttled the twin otters PT6s up and down to no effect, other than to stuff my approach up :(
I was very close now and saw the large crowd watching proceedings from the parking bay, no-one was waving their arms or trying to effect any change in rocky's behaviour.
The wing span on a DHC6 is 65'. The compacted bit in the middle of this 90' wide strip was about the same as an otter's wheel base, the rest being muddy, wet grass! there is a windsock pole about 30m in from the cliff edge! Rock is still mowing the F**KING GRASS!
I put the aircraft as far to the left as I could, hoping not to collect him with the right hand prop or the windsock with the left wing/prop. I hoped fervently that he wouldn't look around now because Papuans tend to run right in front of you rather than away when your driving your car at them. Like dogs and stuff.
Well just as he disappeared from view he looked around :D I didn't hit the windsock and to this day I don't know how :D I was in reverse from about 3 feet up because I was now a little fast and high. I skidded up the wet muddy bit in max reverse and full 'opposite lock' on the nose wheel stearing and slid to a halt with my tail in the parking bay, fully perpendicular to the strip :eek: I reversed into the bay, shut down and opened the cockpit door as the local white priest made some stupid remark. My legs were shaking mightily on the rudder pedals so I let hime have both barrels. I'm fairly certain he's never heard the 'F' word used to such good effect in his life :D
I glanced down to the bottom of the strip and saw Rocky still lying face down with his hands covering his head, the 2 stroke mower had rolled off the end of the strip and dropped straight down into a creek bed, he never mowed again apparently.

Chuckles.