radio communication failure
The standard ICAO radio communication failure starts by saying that if you are in VMC (does not specify if you are an IFR or VFR flight so i guess it encompasses both cases) then continue in VMC and land at the nearest suitable aerodrome.
Then it goes to say that if you are in a radar environment with provision of ATC , continue for 7 minutes maintaining speed/ LVL and then adjust speed/lvl according to flight plan route and continue.... I just wan to confirm that if you are in a radar environment , you disregard the fact you may be in VMC and you just continue as per the procedure all the way to the destination |
No, it’s best to get out of the system. IF a safe VMC descent and landing can be made. The “continue” part is if you’re in IMC. The rule then means you will be predictable—following the flight plan.
|
Although ACARS has been used in these situations to good effect.
|
Know the order of altitudes and routing AVE F
Assigned, Vectored Expected and (As)Filed If in IMC you may take any available instrument approach |
In the US. The ICAO is slighly different, I am sure you are aware.
I am not much for the lost comm procedure today. They seem to have been written before Kitty Hawk when airplanes flew no higher than 3000 ft and every field had an on site navaid. Some airports today you wouldn't find unless you had a FMS. |
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
(Post 10045038)
No, it’s best to get out of the system. IF a safe VMC descent and landing can be made. The “continue” part is if you’re in IMC. The rule then means you will be predictable—following the flight plan.
Alex, you are correct with the caveat that in the London TMA it's 3 minutes not 7. |
This should be sorted out beyond doubt . Personally , and I could be wrong , I don’t think is too practical to use the VMC reference to get back on the ground once you have lost all comms . The one and only time I could possibly think you would be ok is the loss of comms right after departure, provided the airport in question has approach radar ( so they can see you squawk 7600 and prepare for the possibility of you intending to return ) . If you do it in any other portion of the flight or when that airport does not have an approach radar , no one really can guess your intentions and plan accordingly and it could get messy.
Just my thought |
Per the US FAA AIM:
VFR conditions. If the failure occurs in VFR conditions, or if VFR conditions are encountered after the failure, each pilot must continue the flight under VFR and land as soon as practicable. NOTE - This procedure also applies when two-way radio failure occurs while operating in Class A airspace. The primary objective of this provision in 14 CFR Section 91.185 is to preclude extended IFR operation by these aircraft within the ATC system. Pilots should recognize that operation under these conditions may unnecessarily as well as adversely affect other users of the airspace, since ATC may be required to reroute or delay other users in order to protect the failure aircraft. However, it is not intended that the requirement to “land as soon as practicable” be construed to mean “as soon as possible.” Pilots retain the prerogative of exercising their best judgment and are not required to land at an unauthorized airport, at an airport unsuitable for the type of aircraft flown, or to land only minutes short of their intended destination. |
VFR NORDO and RONLY
Unplanned Loss of Communications Must complete 2 sides of circuit before turning final Maintain a keen watch for traffic REMEMBER - NORDO and RONLY aircraft may operate into or out of MF area with prior notification of FSS, CARS or RCO, providing it is in operation. |
In the UK, if on an IFR flight, ATC will expect you to follow the IMC procedure, even if you are VMC ( you can still adopt the VMC Procedure if you have an overriding safety reason.)
|
I had this in the SIM, on an IMC approach to a Spanish airport with an extremely difficult and complicated lost comms procedure.
Having attempted, (not very well), to fly the lost comms routing and incorporate the 7 minutes etc, I was told; “Never mind all that; squawk 7600 (I was), avoid terrain and land. On seeing your 7600, they will get everybody out of your way”, unquote. |
Hi everyone, this is the topic I'm looking for. In jeppessen, as everyone knows, It says INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS A controlled flight experiencing communication failure in IMC, or where it does not appear feasible to continue in VMC shall:
it doesn't seem logic to me keeping 360 until over nav aid or fix then descent. Or should we descent when top of descent come? This is more logic because like it says we proceed with the flight plan and also ATC knows when we descent with squawk 7600. My teacher and I have an argument on this subject and he says we can't descent like that. Actually I am looking for cleaner explanations(official documents) than jeppessen does for descending having radio failure on IMC to change his . I hope you can help me. Thanks in advance. |
All times are GMT. The time now is 18:12. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.