I agree with Chocs, the Tiger Moth is lovely to look at, but its a sack of $hite in the air, it handles worse than a Cessna 152. It may be cool to do a PPL in one, but it wont make you a good Pilot. Learn in a PA28 and then learn to fly a Tiger Moth. Youll live longer - not to mention do your cross countries the same day.

I know you are keen Tigermoth, and I love Tornado`s, but I dont want to do a PPL in one.......! Learn the right way, in the right aircraft - then go and enjoy the Moth -youll be glad you did. If you try to run before you can walk you will just get frustrated. You have the rest of your life to play - enjoy your learning!!

Haven’t any of you flown an N model Mitsubishi MU-2? I guess not.

It’s a graveyard pony.

Just thought I'd leap in in defence of the Piper Tomahawk. That type accounts for about 70% of my admittedly modest 110 hours but it's the plane I learnt on. When you've spent a happy half hour or so trying - at the behest of your sadistic flight instructor - to "hold the plane level in a stall with the rudder pedals" whilst going rapidly from wing drop to wing drop and into some delightful spins, every other type seems positively pedestrian! Since, I've flown Katanas, C152/C172 and Warriors all of which are considerably less "hands on". What is that you fly for, after all, if not entertainment?

The Stealth Bomber...God what a dog.
Not as bad as the Aurora though, ...dont get me started on that piece of junk.

Teroc

Speedbird,
why should i WASTE £5000 or whatever on some miserable piper or cessna when i can fly what i want to right now? If i did that then with my poor financial situation Tiger Moths would be maybe 4/5 years away
Dont try to run before i can walk? thats a nice saying but it doesnt really mean much here does it? And learning on a Moth as its handling characteristics are harder than a cessna/piper would give me better handling skills.
And the Moth was designed as a trainer and so is not a bad thing to train on, its what most RAF would have trained on from 1933-45 or something so cant have been a hopeless trainer can it?
How can u compare trying to learn to fly on a Moth to the same on a Tornado? ones a purpose built trainer, ones a supersonic interceptor/bomber. Thats just stupid.

What u ve said about learning on pipers simply because i "should learn to run before i can walk" is the most frustratingly annoying piece of advice anyone has ever given me. Its not like the Moth is that hard to learn on!

The Cessna 207 was a big mistake. Basically a stretched C206 with no difference in the powerplant, same wings.Certified for 7 pax they are a performance trap, if you have been running around in C206s, youll honestly think youve hopped back in a Warrior on a hot day. :)
I used to watch the Kakadu Air guys, at Jabiru in the N.T. take off and take off and takeoff....Need I say any more. :)



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Props are for boats!Unless its a Kingair.

tiger_moth, I think Speedbird252 was simply saying that the piper/cessna etc trainers are a sort of generic thing that are really GOOD at demonstating a whole range of flying environments from basic VFR as in the moth up to full on sphincter clenching IFR in crap weather. You don't hear of many IFR equipped Moth's these days and lets face it there is a sizeable chunk of the PPL that must be completed with ref to instruments

I haven't flown a moth but would love to experience something like that or the Stearman. many of us learn on the old faithful 152/172/warrior and TERROR-HAWK, I know I did my PPL on all 4 types at one time or another and I think they are a really good place to start cos they gove you the all round skills. but when it comes down to it it's your hobby / career and your choice. just remember that if it is a career you are training for then perhaps the cessna/pipers are the best way to go purely because of the similarities across the range of singles and twins.

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I think that lot makes sense if it doesn't... well ignore it

Golden Monkey, don't be offended. I did my PPL on a Traumahawk as well. And your first hours in an aircraft are fun anyway, no mather what aircraft it is. Arguing about what is the best or the worst aircraft in the world is like arguing over what the best food in the world is. You should always first taste it, than say your opinion about it.

And a good thing too that Moths arent equipped with IFR crap! Thats a reason why i like `em! There isnt any twiddling with knobs and pushing buttons and ......just pure fun flying. And u can still do a ppl on a Moth despite its simplicity which is also good

Jaguar.

Too complicated, too unreliable, never brought one back fully serviceable, never stopped fighting it long enough to enjoy myself, no thrust, no wing.

G

Frederic - Hey, I'm not offended! Just thought I'd stick my oar in and say I was quite entertained by the Traumahawk and will always look back on the plane (C-GSQR) with fondness, despite it's "eccentricities"! I'd say the "worst" I've flown is probably a 152, which seems to be the aviation equivalent of an Austin Metro. But then I have one of those too. I'll get my coat.

Hey Tiger Moth

You're getting some good advice on this thread. If you're going to learn to fly you have to listen to people who know more about it than you do. Ignoring them or criticising them for disagreeing won't get you far...

The Tiger Moth was used as a trainer in the '30's because there was nothing better around. Would you learn to drive now in an Austin 7? Why do you think the RAF stopped using them as soon as the Chipmunk came along?

Also remember that RAF trainee pilots were flying them all day every day, which makes it much easier than you will find it.

If you want wind in the hair, low cost, "no buttons" flying, think about a three axis microlight. More hours for your pound and you can always upgrade to a full PPL later. And they fly better than a Tiger Moth!

Good luck

Hey TM, What have you got against buttons and knobs? Do you hate them because you find it all a bit too complicated? ;) Just remember Select, hold, trim, check, adjust.
Flying gets a whole lot simpler then. :)
Good luck.

As an instructor who flies Airbus, Pipers/cessnas, Tiger Moth and many other types I think I may be qualified to comment on this one.
Whilst the Tiger might not be the BEST handling aircraft in the world, it WILL teach you to fly well and you CAN have fun with it, it also has its own charm. As far as the American rubbish goes, these were NOT designed as teaching machines, but to get you safely from A-B with the minimum of interference from the pilot. If you want a good trainer go for the Chippie,Beagle Pup or one of the Robin trainers.
Airliners CAN be fun, its not the Aeroplane its the flying you are using it for.
As far as worst aircraft goes early Piper tricycles (Colt, Tripacer) with the connected aileron & rudder have got to be STRONG contenders.
Keep with the aircraft you enjoy and good luck.

Thankyou BoxJockey - Im not having a go at Tigermoth, far from it - ambition is brilliant. All Im trying to say is, that if Tiger learnt to fly in a Piper or a Cessna, he`d be able to fly just about any single piston a/c with very little conversion. If he does a PPL in a Moth, thats all he will ever be able to fly, and bearing in mind we are in England, that means he will seriously be restricted to what and where he can fly.. He could do a PPL for the same money, I know he has said that he doesnt want to twiddle with knobs? Thats real nice, but his piloting skills will always remain at a bare minimum - Tiger - Please, im not having a go, I just dont want you to limit your Piloting skills.........you have loads of ambition, Yes a Moth was a trainer in the war but that was over 60 years ago. Your call. Its like wanting to be a rally driver and doing your test in an Automatic.

Please, again im just trying to get the best out of you and Im sure that im right. Learn on the Moth after, you will appreciate it more.

I think you are great with what you want to do, i really do - but i want you to think long term.

Kind Regards.

FoxM I think your comments are spot on.

The Pup and the Chippie are excellent suggestions. If young Tiger Moth comes to his senses and does some digging around he (he's obviously male!) can find some true enthusiast instructors who will teach him to fly one of these proper aeroplanes at less per hour than school Cessna charges.

Fokker 50/ F27
It's bloody ugly! that's why! It's so noisy, you can't even sleep while sitting as pax. Of what i've heard, the crew doesn't like em either (could be wrong there...). The chairs must be the worst design ever. Ok, they'll fit more pax, but what about seating quality? apparantly not! I accidentally fell asleep one trip and leaned my head backwards. When I woke up, I thought somebody'd given me a bash with a blunt object right in the neck. Seriously, I was in pain! Damn seats. And the windows! Bloody awful them aswell. They're so low that in the effort of trying to see sommet outside of interest, you get a stiff neck/back instantly! It's absolutely hopeless, I tell you! The trick is to stay absolutelty still all way. Once you start to try and find a comfortable position, that's where you stopped enjoying the trip! The only good thing about it is that very happy feeling you get when you (while wrecking your back) see the wheels touch down!
-to all the crews of this ac who enjoy it,
I'm sorry if I've said things of which you could have taken offence
regards/lns

Speedbird252
If you learn in a Tiger moth your piloting skills will be FAR better than in a Cessna or a Piper, also it will be easy to convert to flying almost any tin can. If you have learnt on a tricycle though I would challenge you to convert to the Tiger in less than 5 hours!

Biggest piece of junk?

BAC One Eleven. Easiest way to turn jet fuel into noise and do little else....

Best? Tristar. Beautiful machine, real pilots aeroplane, if a little over-engineered..

Although my current 767 will do nicely thank you...

Tiger_Moth,

How can you hate any aircraft? http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif They are all different, but they are all fun - and the differences make them more fun. I learned on Traumahawks, and I don't care what anyone says; their idiosyncracies make them more fun than the totally reliable Cessnas - but total predictability is OK sometimes too. I had some great fun throwing a couple of twitchy microlights round the sky, doing a bit of gliding, trying out gyroplanes. A flight in a Pitts would have sold me on aerobatics except my stomach didn't like it. Then I discovered helicopters and got really really hooked - but still have no intention of giving up f/w flying. I too thought airliners would be boring; then a few jump seat rides with interesting takeoffs and landings, plus a lot more theoretical knowledge than I had at the beginning, convinced me otherwise. You can learn from all types of flying. And ALL flying is fun :) :) :) :) :)

Tiger_Moth, all that you're saying at the moment is theoretical; you really don't know till you fly for yourself. Be open to everything; try everything, and learn. It doesn't have to take you that long - I've only got 300 hours altogether. I have much more to learn, and will have when I've got 3,000 hours, and even 30,000. Learning is what this is all about. So get your PPL on a Tiger Moth by all means if that's what grabs you. But don't shut yourself off from everything else that you can learn, both from flying different aircraft and from people here. Because that's what you seem to be doing at the moment.

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Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[This message has been edited by Whirlybird (edited 22 April 2001).]