UFOs
 

Not sure if this is the right forum but I'll go for it anyway. Has any aircrew ever seen a UFO on their travels? I've always been interested in the subject and as a young copper on nights I spent many hours scanning the night sky hoping to see 'something' but without luck. I understand that this is supposed to be a bit of a taboo subject amongst professional aviators and so don't expect the replies to come thick and fast.

Many Thanks, Del

Not seen too much that could be unexplained. BUt have several times seen lights in the sky that have suddenly changed direction without any noticeable turn. I did research one evening after such a viewing for any known or visible satellites etc and nothing had passed over my visible area for some time. So I am not sceptical or anything but have an open mind on most things.

If you eliminate the impossible, what ever is left, however improbable must be possible and probable.

..... "couldn't catch the 2 targets as they increased speed to over Mach 4"

well if that's not a good UFO story I don't know what is? :ooh:

:ok:

Yep.. been involved in several serious frighteners, including overseas and Heathrow.

Too much jazz on here when you mention UFO so email me direct if you want to hear moe..

Thanks HD, wilco, Del

"Too much jazz on here"

thats certainly true HD ..... I don't know why everyone tries to turn the subject into a huge Joke whenever its mentioned ... it makes anyone who has really experienced the subject very wary of exposing himself to ridicule .... a great pity :(

Shouldn't you be scanning the streets for thieves and robbers, it's no wonder my car and household insurance keep going up!;)

A couple of years back I was doing a "redeye" from LA to Miami and about halfway across the US, shortly before sunrise I noticed a bright light on the horizon in the eastern sky that appeared to be white but would change colors to blue or red, it also appeared to move and "bobble" slightly.

Our first reaction was that it was an aircraft approaching us head on at an altitude close to ours with it's landing lights on. A quick check of our TCAS followed by a query to an otherwise silent ATC showed no other aircraft in our vicinity.

After several minutes the light did not get any closer, nor did it go away, but a carefull check of it's assencion relative to the horizon showed that it was slowly rising. Clearly what we were seeing was a bright star or planet, the changes in color were probably caused by refraction in the atmosphere and the motion we witnessed was most likely an illusion caused by movements of our own eyes trying to focus on an otherwise empty sky.

I suspect that many supposed UFO encounters are in fact stars or planets. I'm still curious as to which planet or star it was.

I think it is rather a pity that pilots are discouraged from reporting UFO experiences more openly and thoroughly, since they can shed light on two very important issues for aircrews: crew coordination and spatial disorientation.

I recently analysed the Campeche incident involving a Merlin on drug-interdiction duty. While the released video was fragmentary, the data strip on the FLIR images was revealing.

This experienced crew managed to capture excellent infrared images of the Campeche oil fields while ignoring radar targets about 120 degrees from the direction the FLIR was being pointed - clearly a crew coordination problem. Furthermore they managed to convince themselves that the FLIR targets were nearby and moving with the aircraft at about the same level - spatial disorientation with a high-tech component.

Finally, they managed to panic themselves into silliness as a result of believing that they were surrounded and outmaneuvered by what mostly turned out to be mundane surface features.

This incident was truly instructive - a total breakdown of normal crew functioning (with excellent data and voice recording) without the unfortunate consequences that might attend a similar situation involving the actual flying of the aircraft.

If only crews could be encouraged to disclose and dissect such incidents in which there were no unfortunate consequences, we could learn a great deal about recognizing and preventing disorientation and crew interaction problems.

(ed. for spelling)

Probably one of the most fascinating reports was by an Imperial Airways captain. He his crew and some passengers sighted objects, I think over the Atlantic. He was able to keep the main object in sight for some time and described ‘a feeling of well-being' while near these UFOs.

I saw an old black and white filmed interview of this pilot, and have a report a somewhere about this flight. If no other information is available I'll try to find the copy, though it won't be for a week or so unless I happen across it tonight..

Astra driver - Your star/planet would almost certainly have been Venus. That changes colour throughout the spectrum, especially when low on the horizon. It has been mistaken for a UFO by many people.

Interesting
 

HEATHROW DIRECTOR


Come on and tell us about your experiences-would be nice to hear-knowing that radar guys know more than pilots;)

N_D

"...knowing that radar guys know more than pilots"

Did I say that?

Sorry did not mean that. I meant that normally atc(Radar)people see more whats happening in their airspace than the guys from the airplane-sorry about the confusion-my grammar:ugh:

N_D

Flew with a capt some years back who had an uncle on stratocruisers.I think they were
en route jfk gander when they witnessed one of those cigars with other attendant whatever.It was reported,photographed,not detected by any radar such as it was then,
witnessed by passengers etc. It flew in parallel with the stratocruiser until fighters were sent to investigate,wherupon the scout vehicles disappeared into the cigar and
it disappeared at high speed. What was more intersesting was the crew being met at gander by some form of security (us l think) ,had the flight log confiscated,and sworn to keep quiet about what they had seen.
Als had another friend on a CL44 cargo flight (tradewinds?) over the mediterranean
in the region of majorca at night having to take evasive action from something huge in the sky. Aircraft in front and behind also witnessed it ,including a US hecules
that stated that whatever it was looked like and appeared to be the size of a nuclear submarine!
This friend was not a crank and was as cynical as most people. Probably shrugged his shoulders and carried on reading the sun..This thing was not a ballon etc cos it manouevred at a great rate and moved awy at high speed.

Fascinating stuff Chaps. Undoubtedly a huge percentage of 'lights' in the sky are stars and planets, especially when viewed near the horizon 'cos of the 'slant angle' effect through the atmosphere which magnifies and distorts things as when the slant angle through haze makes viz poorer than when looking straight above you. The reports which really intrigue me are multiple sights of 'mother ships' such as cigar shaped objects. Surely these can't be optical illusions or mass hysteria? Where these objects come from is, of course, another question.

Del

What a pleasant surprise to find this subject being debated seriously on Prpune.

I was riding the jump seat on a CO DC10-30 LAX-IAH back in the early '80s, and I listened in on a 2 hour conversation about UFOs between the three operating crew - two of whom were ex-military. Believe me, they weren't talking about mis-idents of Venus! Enough material for a book...

Think worm-holes...... :ok:

To those who emailed me privately.. I will respond but with the lead up to Christmas it's difficult to find time to write everything down. Please be patient and I'll get back as soon as I can.

As a youth fascinated by the idea that some of these stories might just be true, I spent countless hours on cold, windy hilltops watching the UFO 'believers' and hoping to see what they saw. This effort was completely successful: I witnessed many 'sightings'.

Of all the witnesses, two west country policeman are perhaps the most memorable: they had become quite famous after spending most of an evening chasing a mystery object that hovered in front of their patrol car, darting from side to side and sometimes approaching very close as they hurtled along at 90mph. I remember them being distinctly disenchanted when shown astronomical tables that placed Venus right in front of them on the straight bits of road.

These fine officers, and most other witnesses had fallen foul of two properties of the human eye:

Firstly, it's extreme sensitivity - the ability to easily see a 3W torch bulb suspended on a hill top 6 mi away for instance. Unfortunately, the eye is not calibrated, and a pin point source has an apparent brightness linked to the surrounding environment. That is how Venus can be described by witnesses as 'dazzling' and so on.

Secondly, once denied normal visual cues in low light situations, the eye can begin rapid involuntary movements. This makes distant light sources (eg stars, planets, satellites and aircraft) appear to 'dart' about the sky.

Just note how many UFO stories involve 'dazzling' objects that 'dart' about!

I am not suggesting that all sightings can be explained in this way. But very many can. And there are important lessons for professional observers like Pilots and Policemen. The eye can certainly deceive and the more 'expert' the witness, the more extreme the mis-interpretation of visual cues can become. That's just because we all share the same physiology and no amount of training can change that, whatever any given individual might think.

PS

I never really gave up on the UFO idea. The astonishing and continuing discovery of hundreds of extra-solar planets in the last few years gives the whole subject new momentum. But 'investigating' the anecdotes of witnesses is a hard road that rapidly becomes impassible if any kind of objective test is applied to the data. The subject was IMHO best discussed many years ago by Prof RV Jones, the man who 'discovered' the V2 rocket. His account is here.

Very good to see the subject being discussed seriously.

I used to live in Pembrokeshire as a teenager and there was a rash of sightings (1990-91) when they were building this "over the horizon radar" near Brawdy and St. Davids. My Dad spotted "our" UFO first- Our kitchen window looked out across the valley towards Haverfordwest and he called me to witness what he saw. Let me say that it cured any scepticism I may have had instantly. Time of day was mid to late afternoon, scattered fairweather Cu approx 2500' and this thing went over LOW and Slow. It was an orange sphere with the luminescence of a zebra crossing light except not flashing. It was difficult to estimate size, except to say that it looked BIG! (maybe between 50-100yds across?) Orbiting it were a number of different coloured lights. This thing proceeded across the valley and hung there on the opposite hillside for about 2-3 minutes (which, believe me, seemed like a lot longer!) before literally vanishing.

Both myself and my father agreed that we had not seen anything like it before, but we were not going to report it. I think there was a couple of column inches in the local paper a few days later, but very little else.

What was very wierd (i don't know if it was related) was that only 2 or 3 nights later, we had BALL LIGHTNING in the house. Blew every bulb and tripped all the fuses on the box.

All in all, very wierd.

As several have commented it is a nice change to see a sensible debate.

I have seen two things while aviating that I could not identify or explain at the time. One in 1963 was at height over the Boscombe area and looked like a very high level dot of an aircraft that exploded as I was looking at it. (I was at 40k and it was way above me) after which I saw debris falling on my port side. The other passed beneath me in 1954. I first saw it out on the starb side, it tracked under our RAE Lincoln and reappeared out the port side (we were about 12k) I shouted as I moved to look out the port side but nobody else in the crew saw it. I couldn’t guess how far it was below us because I didn’t know the size … but since it took a mo to appear out the other side I suspect it was fairly well below. We were over West Freugh range and dropping prototype cluster bombs from height. Range radar was calling the release. They saw nothing.

I reported both events. Both were investigated by ATC. The first was explained as the bursting of a high altitude trials balloon from Larkhill at approx 90k. The debris I saw was thought to be part of an instrumentation package.

Nobody had anything to offer regarding the West Freugh event, despite it getting people’s attention from a range safety standpoint. The shape of what I saw was best described as the front view of a Vulcan if you remove the fin. Or, if you prefer, a sphere with a couple of cones out either side where the base diameter of the cones was say 90% of the diameter of the sphere. The tips of the cones were slightly rounded. It was of uniform dark colour with no details visible, travelling one cone tip first. IF my impression that is was well below us was correct it must have been doing say 250 kts. It was broad daylight. I had my leg pulled a bit by some in the mess (we were visitors for a couple of days) but not by those in the crew who knew me.

An interesting subject I've been following for many years - it's also interesting to look at man made aircraft as potential UFO's. I revisited a book I bought in the 90s which had a description of a UFO looking like nothing the witness had ever seen flying through a valley in a remote part of the UK. She gave a very good description right down to the "alien" in the front. Reading the book again it was an almost exact description of the F117 Stealth bomber (right down to the position of the pilot) Maybe a clandestine testing mission?

Have seen a few strange things in the air - 2 stand out in particular - one in the australian outback near Pine Gap (a very bright light plummeting to the ground then reversing and shooting upwards at an angle) and one (bizarrely) at an airshow at RAF Valley which was witnessed by quite a few other people as well. The first I had no explanation for - the second was a large disk moving through clouds - my guess was a conventional airliner reflecting ice crystals (but i don't know if this would lead to it appearing as a disk)

John (Farley), This will sound terribly sycophantic but I can't tell you how thrilled this low achieving but very enthusiastic aviator is that one of his all - time heros has responded to his post !

Re your post; from your perspective, were those wing tips rounded up, down or just rounded (if that makes sense)?


Del

Sorry Del

It appears my description was not adequate. Take the front view of a Vulcan, remove the fin and give what you see on the paper a circular cross section turning the front view of the 'Vulcan' into a pair of cones with a sphere in the centrs. It had no wings and it was travelling with the tip of one cone first, then the sphere then the trailing cone. Sorry it was not exactly cigar shape - but close!

JF

JF, These are the sort of observations which I find the most interesting because (a) they are by a reliable witness whose credentials are beyond reproach and (b) they are more substantial than just 'lights' which are always suspect for the reasons discussed earlier. Out of interest, during your many flights around the Boscombe Down area did you ever spot any crop circles and what are your thoughts on that subject. I find it difficult to accept that they are all hoaxes. Some of the more spectacular examples are so complex and would have involved so much work and time that I feel it's inevitable that word would have leaked out from the conspirators. I seem to remember about ten years or so ago there was an appeal by the CAA or perhaps one of the ministries to PPLs to keep an eye open for them and, if possible, take pictures and so at least someone was taking them seriously!

Del

Fascinating topic all
I'm training as an ATCO at the moment and i am intrigued as to why so many of these objects mentioned have not shown up on radar. Are we looking at stealth technology perhaps, or maybe something not known as of yet?
Has anyone also got any pics taken from flightdeck windows??

As an aside my parents have also reported seeing a long cigar shaped object in the sky . apparently it appeared, then slowed down to a very slow speed for a few mins then sped off leaving the obligatory hazy trail behind. i have since spoken to a couple of other people who also saw the same thing from a different town that same evening. BTW this was at night and the object was "glowing orangey"
CF

Sorry Del. No crop circles - which I think are in a very different category from things one sees in the sky and cannot identify....

Derek

If you want a facinating and VERY thought-provoking read, then try this:

The DAY AFTER ROSWELL
by Philip Corso, William J. Birnes "

I read it several years ago and coulldn't put it down. It's well-written by someone with a high US military clearance, who claims he was there and was a lead figure in the investigation.

In short, he claims it was all true, and goes into great detail listing and describing all the inventions that we have seen since and as a result of reverse engineering of what they found.

A truly facinating read. If you do a GOOGLE search you will find it.

Cheers....LC

cheers LC, Will do that, many thanks, Del

On a summer evening in about 1976 my friend and I were camped on the western shore of Georgian Bay, part of the Great Lakes. It was a beautiful evening and as we looked across the bay to the east we saw a very bright white light. It was not possible to estimate exactly how far away it was but I would guess 10 or 15 miles.

At first I thought it was a helicopter with its cabin illuminated. However when it started accelerating at a very high rate and then stopping almost immediately we realised it was something else. It hovered and then seemed to come toward us, which was a bit disconcerting. Fortunately it changed direction and continued with these starting and stopping manoeuvres for a few more minutes. Next day we heard on the radio that there had been a lot of UFO sightings in our area the previous evening.

If you want a good read on the subject anything by Timothy Good is er.. good! Not sure about the Day after Roswell - I think it threw up more questions than answers.

Yonks ago, I was RHS in a PAZT from Luton to Liverpool. Just nort of LIC @3500 I saw a very bright light waverimg between my 11-12 o'clock. After 15-20 seconds, said light went from 12 o'clock to my left, and vanished in less than 5 secs.
Convesation...
Me .......... few secs later
P1 "Errm, can you see what I see?"
Me "That bright light?"
P1 "Yep, I thought that I was seeing things"
At this point, the light/object went left.
Me "It's probably the landing lights on an inbound into Manch or Liverpool"
P1 "OK"
Subsequent checks revealed no a/c inbound to either a/f +/- 45 mins of said sighting
watp,iktch

<<If you want a good read on the subject anything by Timothy Good is er.. good! >>

I used to read TG... but he seems to have disappeared from the scene and none of his "forecasts" came true.. It's happened with many books I've read... I read that "Gulf Breeze" was a fix... and the Rendlesham Forest episode seems to have been discredited.

Actually I think Georgina Bruni does a good analysis of the Rendlesham Forest episode in "You can't tell the people" . I've never subscribed to the lighthouse theory most people try and discredit it with as there were too many other happenings reported by others at the same time as the sighting.

Nick Pope is another interesting author - brought to light the incident at RAF Shawbury in the 90's - I was only a few miles from there at the time (and saw nthing!) but I spoke to him about it briefly at a book signing and he gave me the impression there was something bubbling under about this episode :eek:

A spromised, I have put togethre some notes on my (limited) experience of UFOs.. To those who may be hoping for something scary at Heathrow... sorry, the incidents were too quick to be really scary.

UFO Notes

Thanks for taking the time to post your experiences HD. :ok:

Thanks HD - very interesting stuff.

Del

Thanks for taking the time to write those up HD. The first experience you mention in North Africa certainly is weird !

Very interesting stuff! Your account of Incicdent 8 is very similar to something I witnessed over Newcastle during the summer - which was unusual to say the least!

Not had any UFO experiences - yet. But have a ghost in my house and serveral incidents in my old house which belonged to my grandparents.... but get that 'yeah right!' grin/smirk if I tell people.

Think a lot of people are in a similar situation... not sure whether to believe but DON'T disbelieve....

Can't believe that earth is only inhabited planet in the universe...

Go back 150 yrs and who would have believed we'd have aircraft or computers...

PW