Why so many bad landings at Kai Tak?
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Airclues,
In spite of what SkyTorque says, you and I both know that their was a CC (freq 360) NDB approach to rny 13 and, like you, have done it several times, altho in my case, with B707 aircraft.
It even had a 'figure 8' letdown procedure, and resulted in (as I recall) a 13 mile track from CC>SC>RW with approximately a 120 degree track change to final from Stonecutters.
The MDA was 890, as I recall.
Could be a challange on a dark and stormy night, when the IGS tripped off due to heavy rain.
Got really up close and personal with the boats in the harbor.
Ah, for the good 'ole days, reverse thrust and all (and I don't mean engines, either)
In spite of what SkyTorque says, you and I both know that their was a CC (freq 360) NDB approach to rny 13 and, like you, have done it several times, altho in my case, with B707 aircraft.
It even had a 'figure 8' letdown procedure, and resulted in (as I recall) a 13 mile track from CC>SC>RW with approximately a 120 degree track change to final from Stonecutters.
The MDA was 890, as I recall.
Could be a challange on a dark and stormy night, when the IGS tripped off due to heavy rain.
Got really up close and personal with the boats in the harbor.
Ah, for the good 'ole days, reverse thrust and all (and I don't mean engines, either)
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Pictures!
Hey Guys,
Just check out Airliners.net and select Hong Kong - Kai Tak in the Airport dropdown box - guaranteed to provide some very scary/interesting/amazing photos!
Also, this link provides several good images and one movie of the Korean 744 (as pictured above) on the very tricky approach, which is fantastic!
I'm sure there are plenty more sites out there which have great info and pictures on Kai Tak, so if anybody comes across them - please post them because we'd all love to see them!
Cheers
Souls.
Edited 11/08 - hopefully the link works now!
Just check out Airliners.net and select Hong Kong - Kai Tak in the Airport dropdown box - guaranteed to provide some very scary/interesting/amazing photos!
Also, this link provides several good images and one movie of the Korean 744 (as pictured above) on the very tricky approach, which is fantastic!
I'm sure there are plenty more sites out there which have great info and pictures on Kai Tak, so if anybody comes across them - please post them because we'd all love to see them!
Cheers
Souls.
Edited 11/08 - hopefully the link works now!
Last edited by Soulman; 11th Aug 2003 at 09:07.
Avoid imitations
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411A,
Oops! You have jogged my memory, you are correct, there WAS a CC letdown, and I have flown it myself! I think it was probably withdrawn in about 1996.
Your reference to the figure of 8 reminded me of it. I'll have another dig around to see if I can find that plate too.
My senility is obviously setting in quicker than I had realised...
EDIT:
Found it! It was in another place, I had obviously removed it from my personal aide-memoire booklet because it was no longer in use towards the end of my time out there. There was also a similar but abbreviated CC approach, that ran in from the TH NDB, out to the east.
Thinking back more a little more clearly now (!), we seldom used the CC approaches in anger because we operated VFR well below the wx limits required to utilise them and we could let down over the sea IFR to VFR and come in through the harbour.
The hold was on 041 inbound at 3500 ft. The figure of 8 descent was 251/041, then the inbound towards Stonecutters NDB (SC) was also 041. From there it was a visual approach following the curved set of lead-in lights (across the roof-tops etc) to the runway, a 90 right but a relatively shallow turn, given the distance out it commenced from. The MDA was 780 ft and the minimum vis. was 4000 metres for Cat D, and 3200 for Cat A.
Strangely, you needed to be able to receive the CH DME. It might have been for this reason that these NDB approaches were phased out. They were superfluous if you could receive the CH VOR/DME and that approach, already mentioned, was a bit less taxing!
Oops! You have jogged my memory, you are correct, there WAS a CC letdown, and I have flown it myself! I think it was probably withdrawn in about 1996.
Your reference to the figure of 8 reminded me of it. I'll have another dig around to see if I can find that plate too.
My senility is obviously setting in quicker than I had realised...
EDIT:
Found it! It was in another place, I had obviously removed it from my personal aide-memoire booklet because it was no longer in use towards the end of my time out there. There was also a similar but abbreviated CC approach, that ran in from the TH NDB, out to the east.
Thinking back more a little more clearly now (!), we seldom used the CC approaches in anger because we operated VFR well below the wx limits required to utilise them and we could let down over the sea IFR to VFR and come in through the harbour.
The hold was on 041 inbound at 3500 ft. The figure of 8 descent was 251/041, then the inbound towards Stonecutters NDB (SC) was also 041. From there it was a visual approach following the curved set of lead-in lights (across the roof-tops etc) to the runway, a 90 right but a relatively shallow turn, given the distance out it commenced from. The MDA was 780 ft and the minimum vis. was 4000 metres for Cat D, and 3200 for Cat A.
Strangely, you needed to be able to receive the CH DME. It might have been for this reason that these NDB approaches were phased out. They were superfluous if you could receive the CH VOR/DME and that approach, already mentioned, was a bit less taxing!
Last edited by ShyTorque; 11th Aug 2003 at 07:27.
Title? What title?
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Hey Soulman, I think you need to look at your link to hang-out.co.uk !!
Having said that, I found my on way there - wow!! Well worth a look, especially the beared A340 shots
Having said that, I found my on way there - wow!! Well worth a look, especially the beared A340 shots
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Sorry Guys
Hey phnuff,
Point taken - the link seems faulty. I tried editing my post and replacing the old, faulty link with the new one - same result -
Just try Hang-Out, click on photos, then follow the link to 'Kai Tak', hope it all works now!
Cheers,
Souls.
Point taken - the link seems faulty. I tried editing my post and replacing the old, faulty link with the new one - same result -
Just try Hang-Out, click on photos, then follow the link to 'Kai Tak', hope it all works now!
Cheers,
Souls.
Join Date: Oct 2001
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In the video clip at www.hang-out.co.uk have a look at the windsock.
The "tightening crosswind" was a major factor but also contributing was the tailwind down the IGS.
As such there was a large power requirement at the same time as making a tight"ish" turn on to Final.
(If youre not an airline pilot.... also consider that with underslung engine pods, a large power application also gives a large pitching [up] moment ....again, just as in fact you really want to keep the aircraft going down!)
Concur with one of the first responses though........a well flown IGS........GLORIOUS!
The "tightening crosswind" was a major factor but also contributing was the tailwind down the IGS.
As such there was a large power requirement at the same time as making a tight"ish" turn on to Final.
(If youre not an airline pilot.... also consider that with underslung engine pods, a large power application also gives a large pitching [up] moment ....again, just as in fact you really want to keep the aircraft going down!)
Concur with one of the first responses though........a well flown IGS........GLORIOUS!
