Have you had an ATCO on your f/d?
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Have you had an ATCO on your f/d?
Hello all,
As part of an overall attempt to further the practice that was in existance prior to 9/11, whereby current ATC staff were encouraged to arrange familiarisation flights with relevant airlines or aircraft types to get live experience of 'the other side of the mic', I would like to hear from anyone that has recently (last 6 months) had an ATCO on their f/d jumpseat in this capacity.
This is not an official program (yet) but is a number of European ATCOs that are seeing first-hand what the loss of this valuable experience is starting to do with newer controllers. The benefit of pilot-controller cross-experience is hugely beneficial to both sides but of course much more so to the ATCO.
Most of our European Centres, new security procedures notwithstanding, openly welcome operating flight crew to visit and learn more about ATC.
SO, in order to find out whether this practice is still being allowed in some countries, and to further our request for it being reintroduced in others, we would like to hear from anyone who has had, a full-sector, ATC jumpseater in the cockpit for the purposes of observing ATC procedures.
This is not related to ATC staff travel, 'ID flashing', or 'hitching'.
Our intention is to provide a formal channel with interested airlines where a request would be made, with full staff details and requested date of travel, where the airline would then come back with an approval, suggested route, and times. In return of course, we would like to further our 'pilot visits' to atc ops.
Although this relates to Europe, we would welcome any input, worldwide, in terms of what your airline allows, and also any suggestions or comments you may have.
We would prefer not to highlight indiviudal airlines on this board, for the simple reason that jumpseats are a sensitive issue and its probably better dealt with 'off-air'
So please respond by PM or email to me.
1. Have you had anyone recently on the FD
2. Which airline are you with?
3. Do you have any personal thoughts on this issue, or suggestions.
Thanks.
BR.
As part of an overall attempt to further the practice that was in existance prior to 9/11, whereby current ATC staff were encouraged to arrange familiarisation flights with relevant airlines or aircraft types to get live experience of 'the other side of the mic', I would like to hear from anyone that has recently (last 6 months) had an ATCO on their f/d jumpseat in this capacity.
This is not an official program (yet) but is a number of European ATCOs that are seeing first-hand what the loss of this valuable experience is starting to do with newer controllers. The benefit of pilot-controller cross-experience is hugely beneficial to both sides but of course much more so to the ATCO.
Most of our European Centres, new security procedures notwithstanding, openly welcome operating flight crew to visit and learn more about ATC.
SO, in order to find out whether this practice is still being allowed in some countries, and to further our request for it being reintroduced in others, we would like to hear from anyone who has had, a full-sector, ATC jumpseater in the cockpit for the purposes of observing ATC procedures.
This is not related to ATC staff travel, 'ID flashing', or 'hitching'.
Our intention is to provide a formal channel with interested airlines where a request would be made, with full staff details and requested date of travel, where the airline would then come back with an approval, suggested route, and times. In return of course, we would like to further our 'pilot visits' to atc ops.
Although this relates to Europe, we would welcome any input, worldwide, in terms of what your airline allows, and also any suggestions or comments you may have.
We would prefer not to highlight indiviudal airlines on this board, for the simple reason that jumpseats are a sensitive issue and its probably better dealt with 'off-air'
So please respond by PM or email to me.
1. Have you had anyone recently on the FD
2. Which airline are you with?
3. Do you have any personal thoughts on this issue, or suggestions.
Thanks.
BR.
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Hopefully not sounding rude by saying this, but your profile is blank and you have only made 2 posts (including this one) at the time I write. As you say jumpseats are a sensitive issue and there is nothing linking you away from the profession of Journalism, so telling a little more may be beneficial. Exactly what do you expect to get from the results, and if you are in the right channels, why do you have to use PPRuNe to get results? Most fam flights were and are organised via both airline and ATC provider directly, and not through any backdoors.
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Hi 5miles
Valid questions. I'll explain some more I guess, and no Im not a journo!
I'm not 'in the right channels' - for me, pprune is the right channel for this initial request.
The ATC provider I work has little interest from a management perspective in chasing this issue. This is also the case for some of the other ATCOs that I have been discussing this with privately. I presume you are with NATS and maybe they are a little more proactive in getting something done about it.
We are interested in trying to set something up but the problem is that approaching management and saying, 'I'd like to organise a fam flight' is met with the response - 'Thats not possible anymore' - and they aren't going to look into it any further.
I think the main reason for the lack of concern at mgt level is that, like everything else, safety is not the priority. The priority is to cover their arse by making sure that Standard Ops manuals for ATC (mats etc.) are up to speed and if you don't do what it says there then you can be hung out. But being proactive and seeking to broaden controller experience in other outlets like fam flights is not a priority.
So, we want to see which airlines are helpful with fam trips, and then we can go back to our companies and at that stage at least we know who to tell them to contact. If that fails, then we may try and organise it directly ourselves.
Hope that shows where Im coming from.
Cheers!
BR
Valid questions. I'll explain some more I guess, and no Im not a journo!
I'm not 'in the right channels' - for me, pprune is the right channel for this initial request.
The ATC provider I work has little interest from a management perspective in chasing this issue. This is also the case for some of the other ATCOs that I have been discussing this with privately. I presume you are with NATS and maybe they are a little more proactive in getting something done about it.
We are interested in trying to set something up but the problem is that approaching management and saying, 'I'd like to organise a fam flight' is met with the response - 'Thats not possible anymore' - and they aren't going to look into it any further.
I think the main reason for the lack of concern at mgt level is that, like everything else, safety is not the priority. The priority is to cover their arse by making sure that Standard Ops manuals for ATC (mats etc.) are up to speed and if you don't do what it says there then you can be hung out. But being proactive and seeking to broaden controller experience in other outlets like fam flights is not a priority.
So, we want to see which airlines are helpful with fam trips, and then we can go back to our companies and at that stage at least we know who to tell them to contact. If that fails, then we may try and organise it directly ourselves.
Hope that shows where Im coming from.
Cheers!
BR
