Jumpseat rule change?
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Jumpseat rule change?
Hi
I was wondering if the people in the know may be able to help me with this question...
I understand that the flight deck jumpseat has been banned for anyone other than operating flight deck crew etc. I was wondering (seeing as in some respects this is a pathetic rule) if you think the rule will be altered to allow none operating pilots, none operating cabin crew to use the jumpseat in the F/D in the near future?
I think it is a no brain rule for non operating crew to not be allowed to sit in this seat! I mean why the hell shouldnt a pilot or CC for that airline not be able to use it? If they wanted to use the a/c as a missile then surely they would do it when they are operating?!?!?!
Cheers
Dave
I was wondering if the people in the know may be able to help me with this question...
I understand that the flight deck jumpseat has been banned for anyone other than operating flight deck crew etc. I was wondering (seeing as in some respects this is a pathetic rule) if you think the rule will be altered to allow none operating pilots, none operating cabin crew to use the jumpseat in the F/D in the near future?
I think it is a no brain rule for non operating crew to not be allowed to sit in this seat! I mean why the hell shouldnt a pilot or CC for that airline not be able to use it? If they wanted to use the a/c as a missile then surely they would do it when they are operating?!?!?!
Cheers
Dave
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I think it is a no brain rule for non operating crew to not be allowed to sit in this seat! I mean why the hell shouldnt a pilot or CC for that airline not be able to use it? If they wanted to use the a/c as a missile then surely they would do it when they are operating?!?!?!
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True but if you work for the same airline as the pilots, which is what i meant in my question, then you will have a staff number, pass to fly, airside pass and also the pilots will more than likely know your face from the crew room. If not the cabin crew will know you personally because you work with them on a daily basis.
Like i said there are some no brain parts of the rule which are beyond belief, such as the banning of company pilots and cabin crew of the same airline from using the f/d j/seat. If they wanted to bring down the aircraft they would simply wait until their next rostered flight and lock themselves in and have their way with the aircraft. Or the cabin crew would wait until they are operating and wait until the pilots want a tea or a coffee then they are in the flight deck during flight!!
Dave
Like i said there are some no brain parts of the rule which are beyond belief, such as the banning of company pilots and cabin crew of the same airline from using the f/d j/seat. If they wanted to bring down the aircraft they would simply wait until their next rostered flight and lock themselves in and have their way with the aircraft. Or the cabin crew would wait until they are operating and wait until the pilots want a tea or a coffee then they are in the flight deck during flight!!
Dave
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the pilots will more than likely know your face from the crew room. If not the cabin crew will know you personally because you work with them on a daily basis
This rule is here to stay.
Mutt.
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Carnt even get the oldboy up for landing in my outfit cos of these new rules. Dont think he will ever get the chance to see me do a Cruncher cos me thinks these pesky rules here to stay !!!!
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There is no liklihood of the rules being relaxed, unless the all the terrorist groups who don't like the West renounce violence entirely. I don't like this rule any more than you do, especially as it drastically reduces the opportunities for cheap staff travel, but it's difficult to argue against while the world, particularly the US, is so frightened of terrorism. For example, in my fleet (not airline) there are nearly 400 pilots. I know maybe 50 of them well enough to vouch for them. The other 350 could be anyone, as far as I'm concerned (airline ID's, like any other, can be forged). How do I argue for the resumption of jumpseat privileges against those who treat all aircrew as a threat - and make the rules?
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I am unaware of what the UK Regulations say about Flight Deck Access, but from your summary, it sounds a fair bit like the current status in the US and Canada.
Will this change? Well, that all depends on your CAA of course. I will tell you that in the United States this is a big issue given the large amount of commuting crews. The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has made the prerequisit that a prospective jumpseater's identity and current verification of employment be a prerequisit. That means, if a pilot was fired half an hour ago, he cannot get the jumpseat at another airline by showing his ID, licenses and medical.
Telephone verification is not an option.
The industry as designed and tested a computer based system which will address TSA's requirements. It uses existing computers (even the old 1960's era ones) and is an issue of simply getting the IT people to install the software, and having TSA approve it. There is reason to believe this may still happen later this year. As you can appreciate, anything that happens with government, is slow. This is even more evident when trying to loosen a security precaution enacted by a government which feels the country is threatened.
In Canada, Transport Canada is closely watching (and mirroring) what happens in the USA. They have expressed, in typical Canadian fashion, that they will sit on their hands until the US guides the way. Previous to Sept 11th, access to the flight deck was at the Captains discretion, in accordance with any company limitations. It was essentially an open door policy, with passengers and any pilots coming up. Strippers were popular invites-- even though I am not familiar of any free showings
This all came to an end, of course, an I do not believe we will ever return to those days. I expect, when everything is said and done, we will end up only being able to take company employees and pilots from other airlines whose identity and employment we can verify.
Will this change? Well, that all depends on your CAA of course. I will tell you that in the United States this is a big issue given the large amount of commuting crews. The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has made the prerequisit that a prospective jumpseater's identity and current verification of employment be a prerequisit. That means, if a pilot was fired half an hour ago, he cannot get the jumpseat at another airline by showing his ID, licenses and medical.
Telephone verification is not an option.
The industry as designed and tested a computer based system which will address TSA's requirements. It uses existing computers (even the old 1960's era ones) and is an issue of simply getting the IT people to install the software, and having TSA approve it. There is reason to believe this may still happen later this year. As you can appreciate, anything that happens with government, is slow. This is even more evident when trying to loosen a security precaution enacted by a government which feels the country is threatened.
In Canada, Transport Canada is closely watching (and mirroring) what happens in the USA. They have expressed, in typical Canadian fashion, that they will sit on their hands until the US guides the way. Previous to Sept 11th, access to the flight deck was at the Captains discretion, in accordance with any company limitations. It was essentially an open door policy, with passengers and any pilots coming up. Strippers were popular invites-- even though I am not familiar of any free showings
This all came to an end, of course, an I do not believe we will ever return to those days. I expect, when everything is said and done, we will end up only being able to take company employees and pilots from other airlines whose identity and employment we can verify.
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To show how ridiculouse this is - operating back from MBJ the other week we were heavy crew (3 on flt deck) due to FTL, the 3rd piolt positioned out, but as he was not operating this sector was unable to sit on the flight deck even though he would be there anyway on the way back. In the event of an emergency I would MUCH rather have this guy up front with me able to help out, rather than sitting down the back uselessly - this move is DEGRADDING safety.
