Smoking on turnround?
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Smoking on turnround?
My airline allows crew members to smoke after re-fuelling has finished during an aircraft turn-round. Is this legal? Is it against airport by-laws? Is it legal in the UK or overseas?
Last edited by justme; 16th Feb 2003 at 07:19.
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justme
Best to check the rules of the country you are in - some have very strict rules about smoking in aircraft on the apron, (France rings a bell), others don't seem to care. I think it may have been in Spain many years ago that our agent said it was to do with the airfields insurance cover. If they confirm to underwriters that they will enforce a no-smoking policy it can reduce the premium.
Also I remember that the rules varied depending on whether the aircraft was on a remote bay or attached to the terminal via a finger.
I used to say it was OK to smoke in the centre galley after refuelling and the cleaners were off but not if we had a security person on board.
Be very careful, the fines will be big and your company will have to pay!
Also I remember that the rules varied depending on whether the aircraft was on a remote bay or attached to the terminal via a finger.
I used to say it was OK to smoke in the centre galley after refuelling and the cleaners were off but not if we had a security person on board.
Be very careful, the fines will be big and your company will have to pay!
Last edited by BlueEagle; 15th Feb 2003 at 22:45.
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Smoking on turnrounds
Soory all but you do not smoke when you fill up your car
So why smoke when the fuel guy is putting fuel on the aircraft
we have to send crews to fire alarms set off in jet ways to please don't it only kills our response time to a real fire
So why smoke when the fuel guy is putting fuel on the aircraft
we have to send crews to fire alarms set off in jet ways to please don't it only kills our response time to a real fire
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Important to remember where the jurisdiction of the aircraft lies.
I remember a ramp agent in Frankfurt informing the smoking members of the crew that smoking was forbidden on the ramp. They were in the cabin but the smoke was being blown out of the door and that was his point.
The captain pointed out that what goes on onboard the aircraft was his responsibilty and that he was welcome to wait outside (in the rain).
It is important to check the insurance coverage.
Smoking during turnaround is permitted by the company, subject to obvious conditions, re-fuelling or obstructing cleaners etc.
I remember a ramp agent in Frankfurt informing the smoking members of the crew that smoking was forbidden on the ramp. They were in the cabin but the smoke was being blown out of the door and that was his point.
The captain pointed out that what goes on onboard the aircraft was his responsibilty and that he was welcome to wait outside (in the rain).
It is important to check the insurance coverage.
Smoking during turnaround is permitted by the company, subject to obvious conditions, re-fuelling or obstructing cleaners etc.
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To smoke...or not
Recall a few years ago on a turn at FCO, a CC came up and asked if she could have a smoke.
Reminded her that the airport authorities in FCO (at that time, perhaps now also) prohibit smoking on board, and it was clearly stated in the CC ops manual.
Nonetheless, she went out of the flight deck and lit up anyway, and was promptly noticed by security...and just as promptly arrested and carted off to jail (her smart lip didn't help).
Served her right.
Reminded her that the airport authorities in FCO (at that time, perhaps now also) prohibit smoking on board, and it was clearly stated in the CC ops manual.
Nonetheless, she went out of the flight deck and lit up anyway, and was promptly noticed by security...and just as promptly arrested and carted off to jail (her smart lip didn't help).
Served her right.
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Miserlou
A word of caution. When an operator is given clearance to operate into an airport they will have signed an agreement to abide by the terms, conditions and rules of that airport.
If that airport has a no smoking rule the captain doesn't have the authority to say that those rules can be ignored, his/her employers have already agreed to accept them.
If that airport has a no smoking rule the captain doesn't have the authority to say that those rules can be ignored, his/her employers have already agreed to accept them.
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Those people who get on there high horse about smoking, what do they do when they go out the somewhere were smoking, or not smoking is not regulated, and people can smoke when and where they want.
Yes smoking is dangerous on board an aeroplane, but think about your arguments: All of you how are saying just because the authorities say you can not smoke. I trust that you have more reasons than just because. If you don't then you lily-white thought police need to look at the rest of your lives.
Do you speed when you drive?
Do you ever park illegally?
If you have, then why? The same authority that you are willing to ignore when you are driving is the same authority that you are choosing to force onto other people!
STOP BEING HYPOCRITICAL
Yes smoking is dangerous on board an aeroplane, but think about your arguments: All of you how are saying just because the authorities say you can not smoke. I trust that you have more reasons than just because. If you don't then you lily-white thought police need to look at the rest of your lives.
Do you speed when you drive?
Do you ever park illegally?
If you have, then why? The same authority that you are willing to ignore when you are driving is the same authority that you are choosing to force onto other people!
STOP BEING HYPOCRITICAL
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Ah...Dave,
Aviation is a heavily regulated activity/profession.
If some cannot follow simple rules (such as no smoking on ground), wonder if they could be RELIED upon to perform their assigned duties, when the chips are down.
Suspect not...
Aviation is a heavily regulated activity/profession.
If some cannot follow simple rules (such as no smoking on ground), wonder if they could be RELIED upon to perform their assigned duties, when the chips are down.
Suspect not...
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smoking
Get real, people.
As was said, what part of 'After refuelling'... OK.
If airport regs absolutely forbid, then you're stuck(but ask a ground handler if there's a designated pariah section).
Check jet fuel stats on flammability versus mogas.
I am particularly amused by the person who thinks that a smoker bending the rules implies that he/she is a flight safety risk !!
As was said, what part of 'After refuelling'... OK.
If airport regs absolutely forbid, then you're stuck(but ask a ground handler if there's a designated pariah section).
Check jet fuel stats on flammability versus mogas.
I am particularly amused by the person who thinks that a smoker bending the rules implies that he/she is a flight safety risk !!
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Ha ha. Me and this bloke I knew were at an unnamed airport once, watching a guy hose down the undercarriage of a DC3 with what looked like a bug sprayer.
We asked him what he was doing and through a fine atomised haze, he replied "I'm cleaning all the soot and oil off the undercarriage"
"Oh" I said "What're you using?"
He took the lit cigarette out of his mouth and nonchantely replied "Gasoline"
Without saying anything, the two of us took a couple of steps backwards. We were like a pair of synchronised figure skaters.
Maybe he was lying, but I never did understand how it didn't all blow up
We asked him what he was doing and through a fine atomised haze, he replied "I'm cleaning all the soot and oil off the undercarriage"
"Oh" I said "What're you using?"
He took the lit cigarette out of his mouth and nonchantely replied "Gasoline"
Without saying anything, the two of us took a couple of steps backwards. We were like a pair of synchronised figure skaters.
Maybe he was lying, but I never did understand how it didn't all blow up
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411A - I know a little about aviation. I worked in it as CC and Purser for almost 15 years (long and short haul, chartered and schedule). I was just saying you can not pick and choose when and where you want to follow regs to the letter. Not just when it suits.
THINK ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE!
THINK ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW IT MAKES SENSE!
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Dangerous_Dave
As someone with fifteen years as CC you will know that within an airline, as crew, one's life is governed by Standard Operational Procedures, - SOPs, they form part of the Operations Manual and have a legal status. These SOPs are designed to cover just about every eventuality and allow for the brightest spark employed down to the dimmest.
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" comes to mind and if you can get away with 'bending' the rules then so be it but if you get caught, or caught out, then you can expect the weight of the world to descend upon your neck!
If an airport has a 'no smoking' policy on aircraft on stand, (and several do), then it will be incorporated into the agreement airlines have with airport operators and in all probabliity has legal status too - break the rules, get caught and expect to suffer the consequences.
I am devil's advocate here.
"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" comes to mind and if you can get away with 'bending' the rules then so be it but if you get caught, or caught out, then you can expect the weight of the world to descend upon your neck!
If an airport has a 'no smoking' policy on aircraft on stand, (and several do), then it will be incorporated into the agreement airlines have with airport operators and in all probabliity has legal status too - break the rules, get caught and expect to suffer the consequences.
I am devil's advocate here.
Last edited by BlueEagle; 18th Feb 2003 at 09:55.
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So what is needed then is a list of those Airports/Countries that do and those that don't, supplied by our own companies.
Our ops manual clearly states that :-
Smoking
Smoking is not permitted in the toilets or in any other part of the aeroplane except in:
. The operating crew compartment.
. The passenger cabin.
. The vestibules.
So those that want to can but we need that list just to cover our six.
For the record I don't smoke but understand the need of those that do.
Our ops manual clearly states that :-
Smoking
Smoking is not permitted in the toilets or in any other part of the aeroplane except in:
. The operating crew compartment.
. The passenger cabin.
. The vestibules.
So those that want to can but we need that list just to cover our six.
For the record I don't smoke but understand the need of those that do.
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I have left flying, and the rigid adherence to Standard Operating Procedures, and the all important Flight Crew Orders, but have moved to another job that the rules, and protocols that I work to actually affect whether someone lives or dies, and are not mostly just the whim of some killjoys.
All I was saying earlier was that you either follow like a lemming without thinking and reasoning why everything that you are told to do, or you think and have reasons why you want to do something.
For the record, I do not smoke, but didn't care whether people did when on turnaround, if the fueling had finished, and the crew weren't seen by ground staff.
All I was saying earlier was that you either follow like a lemming without thinking and reasoning why everything that you are told to do, or you think and have reasons why you want to do something.
For the record, I do not smoke, but didn't care whether people did when on turnaround, if the fueling had finished, and the crew weren't seen by ground staff.
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You decide how smoking is dangerous??
Have you seen someone dying of lung cancer???
Have you seen someone with burns and the like from smoking in the wrong place/time?
I know this isn't the right time or place to have this discussion. The topic is whether it is right to some on board an aeroplance or not!
Have you seen someone dying of lung cancer???
Have you seen someone with burns and the like from smoking in the wrong place/time?
I know this isn't the right time or place to have this discussion. The topic is whether it is right to some on board an aeroplance or not!