Bristol, Fog and KLM Cityhopper F70's
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bristol (Trumpton International), United Kingdom
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Bristol, Fog and KLM Cityhopper F70's
I understand that aircraft are fitted with instruments that allow them to land in poor visibility and how little visibility they can land in depends on the category of both the equipment fitted on the aircraft and on the airports runway.
Now, at Bristol we have Cat 3 that allows aircraft to land with visibility next to none. Today, as usual, Bristol was completely fogged in for most of the morning and afternoon and the only aircraft that couldn’t get in was our KLM Cityhopper Fokker 70 which diverted to Cardiff. So my questions are what category of landing system do the KLM F70’s have? And what are the various visibilities for the different categories?
It seems that the slightest bit of fog sends the KLM’s to Cardiff while the other operators seem mostly unaffected. And before anyone starts I’m not moaning at the fact they divert, I’m just interested to know a little more about why, so when the pax ask I’ll be able to answer them.
Thanks
Now, at Bristol we have Cat 3 that allows aircraft to land with visibility next to none. Today, as usual, Bristol was completely fogged in for most of the morning and afternoon and the only aircraft that couldn’t get in was our KLM Cityhopper Fokker 70 which diverted to Cardiff. So my questions are what category of landing system do the KLM F70’s have? And what are the various visibilities for the different categories?
It seems that the slightest bit of fog sends the KLM’s to Cardiff while the other operators seem mostly unaffected. And before anyone starts I’m not moaning at the fact they divert, I’m just interested to know a little more about why, so when the pax ask I’ll be able to answer them.
Thanks
Join Date: Jun 2000
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The Cittyhopper F70s are Cat 111A 100ft/200m, cant really say why they seem to divert as they would carry plenty of fuel on a short leg such as AMS-BRS. I know they do hold for long periods if theres a a chance of an improvement, maybe the forecast was not giving any improvement and they trolled on to CWL which is sometimes done as a triangle anyway.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Well I would be surprised about KLM sending a not qualified crew out. This LowVis program belong to every semi and annual check (also initial). Might be that the aircraft had less redundancy on one of the required CAT 3 systems and were therefore degradated towards CAT 1.
Or it was just so that the weather slipped below the Cat 3 A minimas.
Or it was just so that the weather slipped below the Cat 3 A minimas.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Another reason could be that the fog at Bristol tend to be of the "howling" variety i.e. 25 to 45 knots usually across the runway, so possibly the wind was out of limits for a cat3 landing for a F70 .
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Dunlops said: "as they would carry plenty of fuel on a short leg such as AMS-BRS"
As a long-standing Heathrow controller that remark had me falling about, although NOT in respect of KLM. Several airlines much closer to home have run short of fuel on legs shorter than AMS-BRS......... but I think this has all been discussed at length elsewhere.
Silvertop: I'm interested in the "howling fog" phenomena Never experienced anything like that either in my early days when I held a Met Observers Certificate or all my time as an ATCO. Used to have "howling sand" in Africa though with zero vis!
As a long-standing Heathrow controller that remark had me falling about, although NOT in respect of KLM. Several airlines much closer to home have run short of fuel on legs shorter than AMS-BRS......... but I think this has all been discussed at length elsewhere.
Silvertop: I'm interested in the "howling fog" phenomena Never experienced anything like that either in my early days when I held a Met Observers Certificate or all my time as an ATCO. Used to have "howling sand" in Africa though with zero vis!
40kt fog - Try Shetland!
Southern jessies the lot of you! On any given day in Sumburgh or Scatsta you can get vis below CAT 1 with a gale force wind - 40+kts is not beyond experience.
Having said that it can be virtually CAVOK 2 hrs later!!!!!!
Having said that it can be virtually CAVOK 2 hrs later!!!!!!
Join Date: Feb 2001
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KLM CityHopper - CATII/III
I overheard a conversation that indicated that KLM can't fly CAT II / III approaches at Bristol because of some previous problem the Fk50 had. Apparently the Chief Pilot has decided that, even though the (fully certified) ILS system at Bristol is used by dozens of other operators safely and successfully - his pilots cannot use it below Cat I.
Why??
No reasons given - smells of a political/beaurcratic/autocratic cock-up to me though!! SLF would be advised to use DAT to Brussels or BA/Air France to CDG.
Why??
No reasons given - smells of a political/beaurcratic/autocratic cock-up to me though!! SLF would be advised to use DAT to Brussels or BA/Air France to CDG.
