Why Roger?
Why Roger?
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atomica.com
From Roger, spoken representation of the letter r, short for RECEIVED
source atomica.com - try it - you may not appreciate the other half of their 'roger' definition.
source atomica.com - try it - you may not appreciate the other half of their 'roger' definition.
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From "The Phrase Finder":
"The phrase was used by radio operators using voice transmissions to acknowledge receipt (R) of a transmission. "Over and Out" meant that the transmission was complete (over) and that the receipent was shutting down his receiver (out). In this context, the phrase was usually "Roger, wilco, over and out". The "wilco" means "Will comply" with the content of the message. The word "Roger" is used because it has 2 syllables and is readily understood against the random background noise associated with high frequency (HF) radio transmissions. For example, the name Karen would be spelled as Kilo, Alpha, Romeo, Echo, Nectar. Those are strong, 2-syllable words that an experienced radio operator would readily understand."
If explanation to be believed, then why use "Romeo" for the letter "R" and not "Roger"?
If explanation to be believed, then why use "Romeo" for the letter "R" and not "Roger"?
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Because 'Roger' and 'Romeo' are two different words - with two different meanings.
'Spose it could have been anything - but remember that R/T is international - and every word has to be clear and concise, with no potential for misheard ambiguity (during scratchy reception?) in every Country in the World....despite English being the airband language of the industry.
Who knows - 'Rupert', 'Ronald' or any other 'R' could have major international misunderstandings.....in the same way that we Limeys have another definition for the word "Roger".
(Remember - you cannot "Wilco the cat")
'Spose it could have been anything - but remember that R/T is international - and every word has to be clear and concise, with no potential for misheard ambiguity (during scratchy reception?) in every Country in the World....despite English being the airband language of the industry.
Who knows - 'Rupert', 'Ronald' or any other 'R' could have major international misunderstandings.....in the same way that we Limeys have another definition for the word "Roger".
(Remember - you cannot "Wilco the cat")
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The phonetic alphabet used in the US during WWII and Korea used 'Roger' instead of 'Romeo' That might explain the choice of Roger for 'received'
==============
WWII era US phonetic alphabet
ABLE
BAKER
CHARLIE
DOG
EASY
FOX
GEORGE
HOW
ITEM
JIG
KING
LOVE
MIKE
NAN
OBOE
PETER
QUEEN
ROGER
SUGAR
TARE
UNCLE
VICTOR
WILLIAM
X-RAY
YOKE
ZEBRA
==============
WWII era US phonetic alphabet
ABLE
BAKER
CHARLIE
DOG
EASY
FOX
GEORGE
HOW
ITEM
JIG
KING
LOVE
MIKE
NAN
OBOE
PETER
QUEEN
ROGER
SUGAR
TARE
UNCLE
VICTOR
WILLIAM
X-RAY
YOKE
ZEBRA
Newswatcher
'fraid your source is slightly inaccurate. 'Roger' means 'your message received and understood'. 'Wilco' means 'your message received and understood and will comply'. The two should, therefore, never be used in the same transmission - it would be tautology. My source - the instructor cadre at Swanton Morley in 1954 - pedants to a man
A recent thread on this same subject generated a post which suggested that R/T phrase meanings had been changed recently.
Mebbe! but we of the old brigade will never be convinced
PS - Lunkenheimer is correct
'fraid your source is slightly inaccurate. 'Roger' means 'your message received and understood'. 'Wilco' means 'your message received and understood and will comply'. The two should, therefore, never be used in the same transmission - it would be tautology. My source - the instructor cadre at Swanton Morley in 1954 - pedants to a man
A recent thread on this same subject generated a post which suggested that R/T phrase meanings had been changed recently.
Mebbe! but we of the old brigade will never be convinced
PS - Lunkenheimer is correct
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To clarify a previous post:
"Over" means "message transmitted and awaiting your reply".
"Out" means "message transmitted and closing down". i.e no reply expected.
Therefore "over and out" is a contradiction and should never be said. This is how I was taught by an RAF instructor.
"Over" means "message transmitted and awaiting your reply".
"Out" means "message transmitted and closing down". i.e no reply expected.
Therefore "over and out" is a contradiction and should never be said. This is how I was taught by an RAF instructor.
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Cornish - "Roger" does not mean you have understood.
Whatever argument you wish to rally here - and I'm sure you will - if anybody is about to take an R/T written examination - you can almost guarantee a question, "What is the definition of the word "Roger"". One answer option will include the word "understood" - use this answer and you will get the question WRONG.
Definition of "Roger" is no more than "I have received your last transmission" (which does not include any instructions or readback items.)
Whatever argument you wish to rally here - and I'm sure you will - if anybody is about to take an R/T written examination - you can almost guarantee a question, "What is the definition of the word "Roger"". One answer option will include the word "understood" - use this answer and you will get the question WRONG.
Definition of "Roger" is no more than "I have received your last transmission" (which does not include any instructions or readback items.)
Humus Motor
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Newswatcher
Kilo Alpha Romeo Echo Nectar
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"nectar"? Most certainly
Earthmover, not responsible for the content, but I rose to your challenge and found that "nectar" was indeed a part of several phoenetic alphabets. The Ocean Weather Service used it for their transmissions of the letter "N" from 1952-1956, when they moved on to "November". Other differences were "Coca", "Metro", "Union" and "Extra".
If you really want to see some different alphabets, go to:
http://montgomery.cas.muohio.edu/mey...cAlphabets.htm
If you really want to see some different alphabets, go to:
http://montgomery.cas.muohio.edu/mey...cAlphabets.htm
Last edited by newswatcher; 10th Oct 2002 at 13:28.
Humus Motor
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Well I never! Thank you sir ...... (collapse of stout party!)
Ps: the best callsign I ever heard was the student's plaintive call "Juliet nine wind down one" !!
edited for remembering the 'Ps:' story
Ps: the best callsign I ever heard was the student's plaintive call "Juliet nine wind down one" !!
edited for remembering the 'Ps:' story
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It might be of interest to some of you that some latin-american countries still use the old phoenetic alphabet. Mexico for example still uses nectar, coca, union and metro ... Never understood why, until now.
7 7 7 7
7 7 7 7
Gone West
It may be that today's R/T phraseology translations are as you say. My point related to a time when communications were carried out by professional communicators who were instructed in the CORRECT meaning of such phrases, trained solely in that regime for 12 months and woe betide you if you slipped into such modifications. It was a basic requirement of an era when much comms was by W/T and sloppy operating standards were not tolerated. Where art thou IRIS ??
Anyone else out there tried contacting Cairo on a four valve transmitter with manual tuning only?
It may be that today's R/T phraseology translations are as you say. My point related to a time when communications were carried out by professional communicators who were instructed in the CORRECT meaning of such phrases, trained solely in that regime for 12 months and woe betide you if you slipped into such modifications. It was a basic requirement of an era when much comms was by W/T and sloppy operating standards were not tolerated. Where art thou IRIS ??
Anyone else out there tried contacting Cairo on a four valve transmitter with manual tuning only?
