Descent profiles flown into EGFF
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Descent profiles flown into EGFF
A question for the few of you who fly regularly into Cardiff. Why do you want to descend so early, especially as we then have to take you outside CAS. I was always taught that you preferred continuous descent approaches :
1. because its more fuel efficient
2. because its less noisy for those on the ground.
would love to know, I personally give you descent at your discretion hopefully with a range check (sorry not always)
Ta . Flower
1. because its more fuel efficient
2. because its less noisy for those on the ground.
would love to know, I personally give you descent at your discretion hopefully with a range check (sorry not always)
Ta . Flower
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For a general rule of thumb jets use 3 times the height in thousands plus 10 miles to slow down to the centre fix. If that means we want to go outside CAS then so be it. That allows for 250 below 10, not that we want to slow down you understand. A jet won't go down and slow down. It needs to either keep descending or slow down and configure. Prop jobs have more flexibility and can stay faster to closer.
In the good old days, we used to take ATC chaps and chappesses on trips to help them get an idea of our side of the fence. I have also spent time at ATC and played on the sim - I lasted 10 minutes and resorted to all charter self position direct to the CF and all schedule stay in the hold - tee hee
In the good old days, we used to take ATC chaps and chappesses on trips to help them get an idea of our side of the fence. I have also spent time at ATC and played on the sim - I lasted 10 minutes and resorted to all charter self position direct to the CF and all schedule stay in the hold - tee hee
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I spend most of my life flying the Barbie in and out of CWL and agree totally with Javalin. A constant descent clearance makes life a lot easier but a constant rate of descent is not really that practical cos of the slowing down thing. As an extra bit of Info the Barbie has a climb and descent mode called Flight Level Change (FLC). It's company SOP that this be used in the climb and more importantly in the descent. FLC commmands a descent rate of 2000ft/min which leads to the descent points commanded by the FMS (set up assuming use of FLC in descent - barbie FMS has only a vertical profile but no physical control over that profile vertical profile all down to crew) being further out than you might expect. If needs be - which it nearly always is coming into Cardiff you can revert to VS or Speed modes to increase that rate of descent. But as Javalin rightly says at some point you have to check that rate of descent to slow down.
FLC handles this by automatically starting to reduce the rate of descent back to 1000ft/min between 120 and 100 to reduce speed to 250 knots by 100. Although with no auto thrust the good old pilot has a role to play as well by selecting flight idle at FL120. After that can descend again up to 3000ft/min if needs be and not too worried about scaring the pax !
To answer your question this puts the barbies descent points for Cardiff at the levels we fly just before CPT when coming from the East, and BHD coming from the South and just after Monty coming from the North. Usually get kept high coming in from the East which is I suspect what your question relates to.
As far as going outside CAS is concerned fine as long as we have a RAS and can justify our actions at the subsequent board of enquiry.
FLC handles this by automatically starting to reduce the rate of descent back to 1000ft/min between 120 and 100 to reduce speed to 250 knots by 100. Although with no auto thrust the good old pilot has a role to play as well by selecting flight idle at FL120. After that can descend again up to 3000ft/min if needs be and not too worried about scaring the pax !
To answer your question this puts the barbies descent points for Cardiff at the levels we fly just before CPT when coming from the East, and BHD coming from the South and just after Monty coming from the North. Usually get kept high coming in from the East which is I suspect what your question relates to.
As far as going outside CAS is concerned fine as long as we have a RAS and can justify our actions at the subsequent board of enquiry.
Last edited by CheekyVisual; 9th Sep 2002 at 07:44.
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Thanks ,just for your info when coming in from the east we have little control other than giving EGGD the acceptance level. And I agree if we could have "fam flights" I could ask these questions directly. Take it up with your Chief Pilots apparently they can authorise ATC on the flight deck.
