Without Weather Radar?

[Krallu]

Hi,

before on board weather radars where invented and installed in aircrafts there was commercial flights beeing made.
How did they manage to avoid CB clouds? If they where inside clouds they could easily enter a CB cloud without knowing, or didnt they?

Anyone who has the experience or knows how commercial airliners did manage to fly in IMC back then without weather radars?

Second question for you guys is, what if the weather radar gets U/S before or during the flight. Lets pretend that happens. What do you do in case of instable weather and risk for CB clouds? How do you manage?

Thanks!

[B737900er]

Look out the window

Use your experience/airmanship.

Study and learn meteorology instead of learning to pass an exam.

[Krallu]

I don't think the historical pilots nor the modern pilots are only studying for the exam. Of course there are exceptions as there is different individuals as pilots. But I hope of course people are studying to get knowledge even today.

But the more interesting question is how the flight planning would differ. I guess todays pilots with weather radar would more easily jump in the cockpit and just fly compared to our ancestors who needed a more careful planning before going.
Maybe more cancelled flights than today or more diverted flights due to weather than happens today.

It would be interesting to hear from a pilot who flew commercial without todays technology that makes modern pilot life much easier.

[mustafagander]

There was a flight about 20+ years ago which I operated LAX-SYD with 1 of 2 Wx Rad MEL inop. Nurries, we have another.

This night there was a TC forecast around the Lat of NAN and we were flying more or less alone with no other a/c within a few hundred miles. It was also the night of the new moon. Yep, the other Wx Rad failed. After appropriate CRM and advice from our ops people we returned to LAX. Not worth the risk. After 9 hours we deposited the punters at the gate beside which we departed so they achieved about 100 metres for their time. The problem turned out to be the mounting post of the antenna - one of the only two common components in the system.

You just don't take a big jet into an area of forecast bad weather at night without Wx Rad. Think carefully in daylight too.

[flyboyike]

Originally Posted by mustafagander

There was a flight about 20+ years ago which I operated LAX-SYD with 1 of 2 Wx Rad MEL inop. Nurries, we have another.

This night there was a TC forecast around the Lat of NAN and we were flying more or less alone with no other a/c within a few hundred miles. It was also the night of the new moon. Yep, the other Wx Rad failed. After appropriate CRM and advice from our ops people we returned to LAX. Not worth the risk. After 9 hours we deposited the punters at the gate beside which we departed so they achieved about 100 metres for their time. The problem turned out to be the mounting post of the antenna - one of the only two common components in the system.

You just don't take a big jet into an area of forecast bad weather at night without Wx Rad. Think carefully in daylight too.

I hereby nominate you for 2 DFCs and 3 Air Medals. Where is NAN?

[mustafagander]

NAN is Nadi, Fiji.

[flyboyike]

Originally Posted by mustafagander

NAN is Nadi, Fiji.

You made it as far as Fiji before you turned around?

[megan]

Lat of NAN could put you anywhere in the world, at the Lat of NAN of course. 9 hour flight, turn back near the 50th State?

[flyboyike]

Originally Posted by megan

Lat of NAN could put you anywhere in the world, at the Lat of NAN of course. 9 hour flight, turn back near the 50th State?

50th State is a lot less than 9hrs from LAX, but your point is well-taken.

[mustafagander]

Yeah we were about 250 NM south of Hilo en route SYD. That's about 4.5 hours Ike then we had to fly back. We had a plan to go into Honolulu, take our mandatory rest while the engineer came from LAX with the radar post and fitted it. Maintenance watch had already told us what the fault was and that they had the part available in LAX. Ops refused for, what we saw, as no good reason at all so we burnt a heap of fuel. There were some crewing problems too with 100 hrs in 30 days for 2 of the 4 pilots when we got back to LAX which would not have arisen had we gone into HNL. The next 3 days of crewing in LAX were a dogs breakfast.
Greater minds they say.

[blind pew]

In the good old days

We only had one set which was the property of the captain. There was an unwritten law that if there was a no go item at an overseas night stopping station nothing would be written in the tech log until after the on going crew were informed. Not saying it happened in this case.
The flight was ex western med in high summer..arrived London with all of the forward windows badly damaged.
iirc they had to do an autoland due lack of.
The days when captain's were always right in an airline the propagated that sort of illegal behaviour.
Rule Britannia