Flight Engineers

[bafanguy]

A history of the F/E in the USA:


Flying The Line 1: CHAPTER 17

[Lrhill]

Originally Posted by bafanguy

Moon,

Oh, we were "actual" F/Es by technical definition. We just weren't what we called professional flight engineers (PFE) or F/E crewmen with no pilot credentials or aspirations who did that as a life's work. The PFE commonly began life as a mechanic and were worth their weight in gold, particularly in the non-sked biz where you went places not having your own MTC personnel. If they didn't do actual repairs, they were valuable in supervising the repairs by whatever MTC people showed up to do needed work.

As for "flexible rules", they aren't. The position is defined and requires dedicated training and an FAA F/E license with recip, TP or TJ ratings. For us pilot/F/Es who hired on with carriers operating 3-crew airplanes (and intending a multi-decade career with said carrier), we took positions as demanded by manning requirements...and allowed by seniority...with the expectation of moving to a "window" seat in due course. Overall circumstances dictated when.

Not sure about the Caravelle. I asked the same question in a Caravelle thread but no one answered it.

Back prior to the early 1970's, you had to have a certain number of years of experience as an A & P before you could take the F/E written test. At sometime after deregulation, that requirement was dropped. When I was hired by the Flying Tigers in 1978, I had already taken pasted the FEJ written and was trained as a DC-8 FE and a year later as a B-747, FE. When I was hired I already had my ATP and about 6,000 hours as a pilot but, with no jet turbine experience. As I gained seniority, I flew as copilot on the 727 and 747, and 4 years later as Captain on the 727. I spent 25 years as captain on most of FedEx's aircraft. I had a friend who retired as a Tiger 747 captain. He was hired as a mechanic's helper, uncertified. He asked a CAA inspector what he needed to do to take the FE written. He told him 2 years experience as a mechanic and asked him how long he had been working for Flying Tigers. He said 3 years. The inspector signed him off to take the written, even though he was not an A&P. He flew as engineer for Tigers, who later sent any engineers, who wanted to become a pilot, to a local FBO to get their commercial instrument certificates. He was a very lucky man.

[aterpster]

Originally Posted by Lrhill

Back prior to the early 1970's, you had to have a certain number of years of experience as an A & P before you could take the F/E written test.

I beg to differ. In the 1963-70 time frame professional F/Es were no longer hired at the majors. Pilots were hired to eventually be pilots, but their first assignment was as F/E. It was a longer than pilot courses, and included taking the FAA F/E written. I knew many of these fellows, none of whom were A&Ps.

I dodged this by fate. I was in the first class at TWA on January 13, 1964, that were made second officers (the type that rode the jump seat to be the third pilot until the FEIA types were phased out.) The 110 or so hired prior to me (Oct 63 to class prior to me) were all non-A&P pilots who were trained as Connie F/Es.