Private pilots - a security weakness?
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Private pilots - a security weakness?
Hi everyone,
Are private pilots such as myself a security weakness in aviation that should be looked at? I was thinking about this while airside at a major U.K. international airport today, after simply landing there. It is all very well having big fences and checks at the airport itself, but when someone like me pilots an aircraft from a local airport to one of the accessible large airports, we go through no security checks at all and still end up airside. Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Tom.
Are private pilots such as myself a security weakness in aviation that should be looked at? I was thinking about this while airside at a major U.K. international airport today, after simply landing there. It is all very well having big fences and checks at the airport itself, but when someone like me pilots an aircraft from a local airport to one of the accessible large airports, we go through no security checks at all and still end up airside. Any thoughts on this?
Cheers,
Tom.
Some more money for Capt PPRuNe
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tom775257
Fair point, but don't you suspect that a few one-off checks are run on PPL's say when they get their first medical (this being the first time the CAA) hears of the individual???
Be interested to know more as it does seem that a bit more could be done...
Fujiflyer
Fair point, but don't you suspect that a few one-off checks are run on PPL's say when they get their first medical (this being the first time the CAA) hears of the individual???
Be interested to know more as it does seem that a bit more could be done...
Fujiflyer
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I reserve the right to be utterly wrong, but....
the medical is issued by the AME directly to the student, isn't it? So it isn't issued by the CAA. Sure, a copy could be sent, but by then it could be too late...
Also, no proof of ID is required for the medical, soooooo...
the medical is issued by the AME directly to the student, isn't it? So it isn't issued by the CAA. Sure, a copy could be sent, but by then it could be too late...
Also, no proof of ID is required for the medical, soooooo...
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Good Question
Hi all,
I feel this topic should be explored further, as I think Tom has made a valid point.
I would find it very odd if the CAA conducted any security checks prior to the issue of a medical, given the fact that at 400GBP I wouldn’t have thought it's sufficient to cover such a check, and the medical. Perhaps this can be confirmed by a.n.other.
As for the point made by WupWupPullUp, the Class 1 certificate under section VIII of the licence (Issuing Authority) is the UK CAA and certainly for the initial test, conducted at the CAA, ID is a requirement and must be of the photographic flavour, ie. passport.
To put my pitch in, I feel that any person who is airside can be a risk, especially someone who is incharge of a moving vehicle, beit a C152, fuel truck or baggage cart.
What can be done about it, well I don't know, we could restrict a/c from entering certain airspace (who would monitor/who would administer), we could stop all private a/c landing at International airports (except in emergency) wouldn’t think this would go down too well..... But I do firmly believe that you should be checked and restricted to certain area's when your airside as a PPL.
Just my views,
Fra
I feel this topic should be explored further, as I think Tom has made a valid point.
I would find it very odd if the CAA conducted any security checks prior to the issue of a medical, given the fact that at 400GBP I wouldn’t have thought it's sufficient to cover such a check, and the medical. Perhaps this can be confirmed by a.n.other.
As for the point made by WupWupPullUp, the Class 1 certificate under section VIII of the licence (Issuing Authority) is the UK CAA and certainly for the initial test, conducted at the CAA, ID is a requirement and must be of the photographic flavour, ie. passport.
To put my pitch in, I feel that any person who is airside can be a risk, especially someone who is incharge of a moving vehicle, beit a C152, fuel truck or baggage cart.
What can be done about it, well I don't know, we could restrict a/c from entering certain airspace (who would monitor/who would administer), we could stop all private a/c landing at International airports (except in emergency) wouldn’t think this would go down too well..... But I do firmly believe that you should be checked and restricted to certain area's when your airside as a PPL.
Just my views,
Fra
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In my experience Private flights are well supervised at International airports, compulsory handling etc etc. This has been the case for ages. It wasnt private pilots who drove away with a few quid off the ramp at Heathrow was it?
Ditto abroad. The Europeans are very fond of dedicated GA terminals to keep an eye on you,however they are often much more reasonably priced than their UK counterparts.
Ditto abroad. The Europeans are very fond of dedicated GA terminals to keep an eye on you,however they are often much more reasonably priced than their UK counterparts.
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Fra - ID is required for a class 1, but what about other classes?.
The thing is, if you're going to 'distrust' PPLs/student PPLs, what are you going to do about the hundreds of agency workers employed by catering/ground/maintenance (acft and building variety)/etc etc etc who are airside on a daily basis.
Sure, I know security checks are supposed to be carried out on these people, but how confident are you that the system can trap loonies?
PPLs are the least of our worries !
(no offence intended to the many agency workers - it's just that I'm more inclined to trust a stranger airside, who's been authorised to safely fly an aircraft worth ten's of thousands of pounds, than a stranger that turns up on the number 51 bus!!)
The thing is, if you're going to 'distrust' PPLs/student PPLs, what are you going to do about the hundreds of agency workers employed by catering/ground/maintenance (acft and building variety)/etc etc etc who are airside on a daily basis.
Sure, I know security checks are supposed to be carried out on these people, but how confident are you that the system can trap loonies?
PPLs are the least of our worries !
(no offence intended to the many agency workers - it's just that I'm more inclined to trust a stranger airside, who's been authorised to safely fly an aircraft worth ten's of thousands of pounds, than a stranger that turns up on the number 51 bus!!)
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I agree with the view that PPLs should be the least of our worries airside. Every airport I have ever been to is accessible by unauthorised 'baddies' - and I have been airside both as a PPL and as a ramp worker at a few, including Heathrow, Stansted, Dublin, East Midlands etc. Ramp passes are not too difficult to obtain and you can often get airside without one at all, if you know the weaker entry points. It is also very easy to get vehicles in and out as was demonstrated by the audacious robbers at Heathrow.
There are things that could be done to radically improve the situation - but as ever it requires investment and would involve some increased bureaucracy, which no one wants, including the terrorists. Here are a couple of suggestions. The first thing the Dept of Transport should do is introduce a National UK Airside Pass system, with positive vetting of applicants. This would ensure only trustworthy people with no previous convictions who do not pose a threat to national security would be issued with these passes. This would also be a Godsend for pilots and engineers as it is a bl**dy nuisance having to get a different airside pass for every station you visit.
The next step would be to put plain clothes British Transport Police airside at every airport (never understood why these guys are only found on railways) with job of regular random checking of all persons ID airside and also monitoring for weapons, drugs and other illegal activity in the baggage halls and on the ramps - they would find lots!!
However we live in a so-called free society where individuals do not like to be over regulated (thank goodness) and tightening of airside security in the UK will not happen until the politicians and public are forced to accept it. This will only happen AFTER a major terrorist atrocity takes place that is attributed to lax airside security. The tombstone imperative.
PPLs unite - we are not the problem - the enemies are apathy and the bean-counters.
There are things that could be done to radically improve the situation - but as ever it requires investment and would involve some increased bureaucracy, which no one wants, including the terrorists. Here are a couple of suggestions. The first thing the Dept of Transport should do is introduce a National UK Airside Pass system, with positive vetting of applicants. This would ensure only trustworthy people with no previous convictions who do not pose a threat to national security would be issued with these passes. This would also be a Godsend for pilots and engineers as it is a bl**dy nuisance having to get a different airside pass for every station you visit.
The next step would be to put plain clothes British Transport Police airside at every airport (never understood why these guys are only found on railways) with job of regular random checking of all persons ID airside and also monitoring for weapons, drugs and other illegal activity in the baggage halls and on the ramps - they would find lots!!
However we live in a so-called free society where individuals do not like to be over regulated (thank goodness) and tightening of airside security in the UK will not happen until the politicians and public are forced to accept it. This will only happen AFTER a major terrorist atrocity takes place that is attributed to lax airside security. The tombstone imperative.
PPLs unite - we are not the problem - the enemies are apathy and the bean-counters.
