High altitude flying and Risk
Thread Starter
Beau_Peep
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: India
High altitude flying and Risk
Flying at usual cruising flight levels is good for airline. It saves money.
But it is certainly not good in terms of aerodynamics. It causes severe control issues. Many crashes can be attributed to it.
How many times do we think about it in routine flights while craving/fighting for higher FLs?
Your thoughts..
But it is certainly not good in terms of aerodynamics. It causes severe control issues. Many crashes can be attributed to it.
How many times do we think about it in routine flights while craving/fighting for higher FLs?
Your thoughts..
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,188
Likes: 6
From: La Belle Province
...craving/fighting for higher FLs
if people (as they actually do) plan their flights accounting for the performance capabilities of their aircraft, with all the requisite margins, it's no more hazardous at high altitude than at medium (and arguably SAFER than at low)
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,550
Likes: 0
From: Alaska, PNG, etc.
So I'm coming up short with Airline crashes which can be attributed solely or primarily to "severe control issues" at high altitude.
Guest
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
From: On the Beach
Dan Winterland:
I can think of a few exceptions off the top of my head:
MH17 and TWA/UAL over the Grand Canyon and over New York City.
And very few people die flying. What tends to kill them is not flying all of a sudden!
MH17 and TWA/UAL over the Grand Canyon and over New York City.
Thread Starter
Beau_Peep
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: India
Before posting a negative answer/remark, please ask yourself "how many minutes in your flying career, you have hand flown a commercial jet at high altitudes?". Try maneuvering the airplane in simulator at high altitudes and judge your comfort level yourself. See the airplane reaction.
Its very easy to show your macho in the posts here. My question is for the pilots who accept that 'danger is real' and keep it on their mind
Its very easy to show your macho in the posts here. My question is for the pilots who accept that 'danger is real' and keep it on their mind
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,726
Likes: 103
From: The Winchester
Try maneuvering the airplane in simulator at high altitudes and judge your comfort level yourself. See the airplane reaction.
Its very easy to show your macho in the posts here.
Last edited by wiggy; 21st August 2016 at 17:57.
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 2
From: Seattle
Before posting a negative answer/remark, please ask yourself "how many minutes in your flying career, you have hand flown a commercial jet at high altitudes?". Try maneuvering the airplane in simulator at high altitudes and judge your comfort level yourself. See the airplane reaction.
Tactical jets (A-4 and A-6), which are MUCH less stable than a commercial airliner? HUNDREDS of hours! The A-4s I flew seldom had working yaw dampers, much autopilots. Virtually ALL was hand-flown. The A-6 had a better autopilot; but still failed quite often, compared with the 747.
Still, in over 13,000 hours over 40+ years of flying, I have yet to see a "severe control issue" or ANY crash due to high-altitude flight.
We're still waiting for your examples of "severe control issues" and crashes attributed to "Flying at usual cruising flight levels"...
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 39
From: Wanderlust
Try maneuvering the airplane in simulator at high altitudes and judge your comfort level yourself. See the airplane reaction
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
From: south england
I agree whole heartedly, hand flying at altitude is extremely dangerous if you are close to your max FL and yank the stick back as your are dumped into unreliable airspeed, it could definitely result in death!
Of course you could breath for 1 second, work out what has just happened and why, whilst you are in no real out of trim condition and then apply the necessary memory items.......oh there we go........disaster avoided.
Whilst we (I) talk about unreliable airspeed, has anyone tried 4 degrees and 70% in cruise on the B777 in the sim? Not convinced I would try that myself, more like 2 degrees and 85% (depending on weight etc).
Anyway......jetblast here we come.
GBD
Of course you could breath for 1 second, work out what has just happened and why, whilst you are in no real out of trim condition and then apply the necessary memory items.......oh there we go........disaster avoided.
Whilst we (I) talk about unreliable airspeed, has anyone tried 4 degrees and 70% in cruise on the B777 in the sim? Not convinced I would try that myself, more like 2 degrees and 85% (depending on weight etc).
Anyway......jetblast here we come.
GBD
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 3,982
Likes: 566
From: Where the Quaboag River flows, USA
Intruder,
Dropped off the tanker in the mighty Hun one night with lots of fuel. Lead asks for a block to 430. Controller approves and watches us fall out if the sky in the low forties, one by one each plane reached its exact coffin corner. Fun times, especially the descent waiting waiting for enough margin to pull a bit.
Years later, during Desert Storm, hand flew the C-5 across the Atlantic and once back up the Med from the sandbox.
OP,
If you are fearful of operating a jet within the prescribed envelope, may I suggest a career change.
GF
Dropped off the tanker in the mighty Hun one night with lots of fuel. Lead asks for a block to 430. Controller approves and watches us fall out if the sky in the low forties, one by one each plane reached its exact coffin corner. Fun times, especially the descent waiting waiting for enough margin to pull a bit.
Years later, during Desert Storm, hand flew the C-5 across the Atlantic and once back up the Med from the sandbox.
OP,
If you are fearful of operating a jet within the prescribed envelope, may I suggest a career change.
GF