Airbus Procedures and callouts
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Airbus Procedures and callouts
Hello!
I have a question concerning the fma callouts on the 320. According to fctm:
1. When we engage the autopilot is it right to say : ap1 on ? That's what is written in bold letters in the manual
2. If we get a clearance : when ready descend... And we dial the altitude in. Do we call out : FL100 blue?
Thanks so much!
I have a question concerning the fma callouts on the 320. According to fctm:
1. When we engage the autopilot is it right to say : ap1 on ? That's what is written in bold letters in the manual
2. If we get a clearance : when ready descend... And we dial the altitude in. Do we call out : FL100 blue?
Thanks so much!
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What does your company manual say about the callouts? I'd do it the way they want it done.
I'm fairly new to the type, but wish Airbus would drop the FMA callouts. I don't see how it accomplishes much.
I'm fairly new to the type, but wish Airbus would drop the FMA callouts. I don't see how it accomplishes much.
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I'm fairly new to the type, but wish Airbus would drop the FMA callouts. I don't see how it accomplishes much.
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No FMA callouts?
FCU is fiction, FMA is the Truth
Big fan of calling everything (as per our SOPs)
FCU is fiction, FMA is the Truth
Big fan of calling everything (as per our SOPs)
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I'm fairly new to the type, but wish Airbus would drop the FMA callouts. I don't see how it accomplishes much.
Reading FMA aloud accomplishes three things:
1. Forces you to actually read the FMA as opposed to just taking a glance over it.
2. You get two sensoric inputs: visual and audio (by listening to yourself speaking), so chances of getting the correct message to your brain are better.
3. It helps your PM to stay in the loop if he's temporarily heads down (reading a checklist, making MCDU entries, etc.).
Most companies on this side of the pond do not call out the FMA. I don't gain anything from calling out the FMA that simply reading it doesn't give me.
1. You have to read the FMA to be able to enunciate it, so having to say it it means you have to read it;
2. Your colleague knows that you have read it;
3. You and/or your colleague may pick up an error in your read-out which could be caused by a genuine misreading or the correct reading of an incorrect FCU input;
4. Your colleague may not realise that the FMA has changed until he/she hears you say it. This will help to increase his/her SA;
5. Any standard call also serves as an incapacitation monitor. If you fail to read the FMA changes, your colleague can challenge you and maybe start the incapacitation process.
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Probably it's because it's part of the Airbus Golden Rules. "Understand the FMA at all times".
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Everything that you guys have said is theoretically right, except that in the real world, it doesn't really matter. Any airplane with an AP has some sort of FMA. How us is that Boeing pilots seem to do fine without reading it aloud?
My pet peeve is when the other guy reads the FMA during a radio transmission or checklist. Now I've misheard what ATC said, and need clarification. How's that for safety?
My pet peeve is when the other guy reads the FMA during a radio transmission or checklist. Now I've misheard what ATC said, and need clarification. How's that for safety?
Only half a speed-brake
Speedwinner:
1) I call "AP2", since that's what the FMA says. "ON" and "OFF" have their specific meanings.
2) We do.
1) I call "AP2", since that's what the FMA says. "ON" and "OFF" have their specific meanings.
Originally Posted by PRO-NOR-SOP-90 ACTIONS COMMANDED BY PF
ON/OFF
The simple ON or OFF command is used for the autopilot, flight directors, autothrust and the bird (flight path vector). e.g.: BIRD ON (The HDG-V/S / TRK-FPA pb is pushed.)
The simple ON or OFF command is used for the autopilot, flight directors, autothrust and the bird (flight path vector). e.g.: BIRD ON (The HDG-V/S / TRK-FPA pb is pushed.)
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Check Airman
If you are new to the bus then what you say about FMA is nothing short of blasphemy. Don't get Boeing in when flying airbus they are different design philosophies. With AP off when you pull thrust levers back what happens to Boeing doesn't happen to Airbus. Jet star Australia decided that during a go around FMA to be checked only after gear up. In poor visibility approach in Melbourne during GA pilot accidently stopped short of TOGA. PNF waited for +ve climb, PF waited to order gear up before calling FMA and the aircraft came to 40feet. Another airline with same SOP went to 14feet in IMC before ignoring FD and pulling up then following FD and again going down because FDs didn't transition to GA. They were incidents which could have been accidents and all those airlines changed back original SOPs. You may have put the switch on but you got to confirm the bulb has lit up. Unless seen on FMA it hasn't happened. Sometimes AP doesn't engage when you press so you need to check on FMA. And there is no need to set an altitude when not ready to descend.
If you are new to the bus then what you say about FMA is nothing short of blasphemy. Don't get Boeing in when flying airbus they are different design philosophies. With AP off when you pull thrust levers back what happens to Boeing doesn't happen to Airbus. Jet star Australia decided that during a go around FMA to be checked only after gear up. In poor visibility approach in Melbourne during GA pilot accidently stopped short of TOGA. PNF waited for +ve climb, PF waited to order gear up before calling FMA and the aircraft came to 40feet. Another airline with same SOP went to 14feet in IMC before ignoring FD and pulling up then following FD and again going down because FDs didn't transition to GA. They were incidents which could have been accidents and all those airlines changed back original SOPs. You may have put the switch on but you got to confirm the bulb has lit up. Unless seen on FMA it hasn't happened. Sometimes AP doesn't engage when you press so you need to check on FMA. And there is no need to set an altitude when not ready to descend.
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Appreciate your input Vilas. I'm familiar with the Jetstar incident. However, did their problem stem from not verbalising the FMA, or not reading it at all? Had they read it, they'd notice MCT | GS | LOC wouldn't end well.
A Boeing will also behave unexpectedly if you don't confirm inputs via the FMA. As far as I know, only two US operators verbalise the FMA. Add that to the other CRJ, ERJ, Boeing and Douglas cockpits where nobody reads the FMA, I'm curious why Airbus still insists on this policy.
Their golden rule says to understand the FMA. I needn't say it out loud to understand it. Everything you've said about input vs output is true, but that applies to just about every AP system out there, which is why they all have some sort of FMA.
A Boeing will also behave unexpectedly if you don't confirm inputs via the FMA. As far as I know, only two US operators verbalise the FMA. Add that to the other CRJ, ERJ, Boeing and Douglas cockpits where nobody reads the FMA, I'm curious why Airbus still insists on this policy.
Their golden rule says to understand the FMA. I needn't say it out loud to understand it. Everything you've said about input vs output is true, but that applies to just about every AP system out there, which is why they all have some sort of FMA.
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Ok. But as it says the simple commands on and off are used for AP and ATHR etc. so the command ON is related to the ap. So I think "AP 1 ON" is the appropriate command isn't it? Sure we read what the fma says. But according to the book the it is the ON command. Or do they mean if I fly manually?
what do you say after arming the approach mode and engaging the other AP?
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Check Airman
All the three incidents were avoidable by following manufacturer's recommendations. What one airline does or Boeing does has no priority over the design philosophy of the manufacturer. Air Blue fatal accident in Islamabad is another example of not checking FMA the captain kept dialling heading in NAV mode and when the heading went past 180 degrees he realised NAV mode and pulled to change to HDG aircraft turned shorter way into the hill.Off course there were host of other deviations but checking FMA would have prevented the last fatal blow. There is simply no point going over this. Calling FMA is not a may be item. Below is an extract of Airbus Performance and operations Conference 2011.
QUESTION6 – BRITISH AIRWAYS
Prioritizationof FMA calls versus “positive climb” and “gear up”?
AIRBUSANSWER
TheFMA is the “heart and soul” of the aircraft and should be checked first whenchanges of guidance are done. If a go- around is performed with AP ON, it isthe only way to check that the guidance will perform a go-around with specificguidance (SRS). The call “positive climb and gear up” is to check that theaircraft is climbing and thus drag can be reduced to increase the climbperformance.
All the three incidents were avoidable by following manufacturer's recommendations. What one airline does or Boeing does has no priority over the design philosophy of the manufacturer. Air Blue fatal accident in Islamabad is another example of not checking FMA the captain kept dialling heading in NAV mode and when the heading went past 180 degrees he realised NAV mode and pulled to change to HDG aircraft turned shorter way into the hill.Off course there were host of other deviations but checking FMA would have prevented the last fatal blow. There is simply no point going over this. Calling FMA is not a may be item. Below is an extract of Airbus Performance and operations Conference 2011.
QUESTION6 – BRITISH AIRWAYS
Prioritizationof FMA calls versus “positive climb” and “gear up”?
AIRBUSANSWER
TheFMA is the “heart and soul” of the aircraft and should be checked first whenchanges of guidance are done. If a go- around is performed with AP ON, it isthe only way to check that the guidance will perform a go-around with specificguidance (SRS). The call “positive climb and gear up” is to check that theaircraft is climbing and thus drag can be reduced to increase the climbperformance.