Birds and wxradar

[ManaAdaSystem]

Are birds able to feel the wxradar? A pilot flying for another company told me their SOP called for radar ON during all T/O and landings, even when the sky is clear, to scare off birds.
Never heard of this before, so what do you guys say?
Truth or fiction?

[PaperTiger]

No conclusive evidence either way AFAIK, but highly unlikely.

http://www.avionics.com/Practical%20Avionics/No%208.htm

[Willit Run]

I won't say this is gospel, and it may well be a big ole wives tale, but i've not heard of a bird strike whilst the weather radar is on.

I always have the radar on for T.O.
I have heard of several bird strikes with the radar off!!!

what does it hurt???

[lomapaseo]

"I won't say this is gospel, and it may well be a big ole wives tale, but i've not heard of a bird strike whilst the weather radar is on.

I always have the radar on for T.O.
I have heard of several bird strikes with the radar off!!!

what does it hurt???"

Boy, almost irrefutable evidence!!

I never heard of a bird strike when the captain had his jockey shorts on backwards.

Try it

What does it hurt???

[PaperTiger]

I particularly liked the bit about tying magnets to birds' heads and watching them enter a graveyard spiral. Something to do with the cg, perhaps.

[Capt. Crosswind]

Radar - effect on birds

About fifteen years ago I read a report that radar signals apparently caused migrating bird flocks to break up.
Sounds possible to me.
Any ornithologists care to comment

[Willit Run]

lomapaseo,

Glad to hear your intelectual point of view, that was really swell!

since there seems to be no real evedence, all we have is experience and hope!!!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Thanks for info Paper Tiger,

Willit, I see your point, but I imagine most of us depart with radar off, at least when the weather is OK. I dont see too many birds out flying when the wx is bad, and thats when I got my radar on. Anyway, if electromagnetic waves makes them disorientated, how will they know which way to turn? Wouldnt they get totally confused?

[RadarContact]

It makes them feel uncomfortable where they are and thus maybe scares them away. Seen it happen too often to not believe it.

['%MAC']

This may be too simplistic, but perhaps the birds have become accustomed to the X-band. I remember driving home on the interstate (sorry – motorway) many years ago, one would never get a glimpse of an animal, none were to be seen. However, now driving home, I routinely see fox, elk, deer, coyotes, bighorn sheep, black bears, moose, and even the ever-shy mountain goat is no longer so sheepish. It appears that as these animals have been exposed to human automobiles over time, they have become somewhat accustomed to them.

I had also heard the rumor of airborne radar to frighten birds away, and had always turned it on at lineup, even on clear weather days. (Also a lot of my flying is in the mountains, and wx radar works very well as terrain following radar.) One day there was a large flock of birds on the runway, and zapping them with my radar did absolutely nothing. A 30 in dish and 3 degree beam, maybe I cooked their innards. Perhaps back in the 60’s and 70’s radar did have an effect on our avian brothers, but they now have to contend with so much electromagnetic interference from every where, they probably ignore the radar spectrum.

The data points I’ve collected point to it not working, but with 10 or so experiments one cannot draw a conclusion. The statistics to draw a correlation are not that robust. But some wives tales contain an element of truth, I’ll keep that radar on – habits are hard to break.

(While writting this someone posted that it does work, a good thesis topic if somebody wants to tie zoology and aeronautics together.)

[Pilot Pete]

Not sure if it would scare them off, but it may well stop them producing any more little birdies which in-directly may mean less feathered friends hanging around the airport!

PP

[cormacshaw]

Ok, I know one or six things about birds so I'll dip my toe into this one...

I'm unaware of evidence that birds have evolved any internal biological system that is affected by normal radar emissions. What purpose would it serve?

Long range bird migration appears to rely on celestial/solar navigation and the ability to sense the earth's magnetic field (Question: Can radar affect an aircraft's magnetic-based instruments?)

For mid to shorter range movement (into which surely aircraft avoidance falls), birds go VFR using visual landmarks, be it headlands on the horizon or the next tree over. I'd be fairly surprised if the major factor affecting bird behaviour at airfields isn't the bloody great noisy white plane barrelling towards it rather than a slight fuzzy feeling at the back of its head!

Also, if radar did have that affect on passing birds, is it not an extreme health hazard to humans who live work in the area? (Insert your jokes about Ground-Ops staff behaviour here).

[GlueBall]

It's whatever you want to believe.

Relationship between birds and radar is a total myth. I've had a seagull splattered on my windscreen with radar on and lights on at night climbing out of JFK at 250 Kts. To be sure, it had made an unbelievable 'bang' and I was thankful that the glass stayed intact.

[Semaphore Sam]

If this theory holds any water, wouldn't it also be safer to key the mike on, say, an HF radio at all times below 10,000'? Or continuously flush the loos? Or hum 'Ommmmmmmm'?

[Red Four]

How about some boffin modulating the radar frequency utilised, with bird distress calls, perhaps at a frequency it is known birds can 'hear'??

[Pilot Pete]

Unrelated but funny,

I knew a guy in the army who had worked in a previous life for one of the big engine manufacturers and one of his jobs was testing the fans for birdstike which they did by firing turkeys out of a cannon at a static mounted engine. He admitted that he once left his junior in charge of a certain test and he managed to destroy the engine completely........apparently he hadn't thawed the turkey out before firing it out of the cannon!!!

Strange but true.

PP