Comments on this landing welcomed
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so, here is a landing, off a circling approach with virtually no straight in time to stabilize, at an odd airport.
i have a feeling he could have planted it very near the 1000' mark but held off for a smoother touchdown.
i also have a feeling that few on this forum could handle this landing as well as the actual pilot (and gee that plane sure looks familiar , distinctive paint job).
It is better of course to touchdown nicely on that 1000' marker, on speed, everything nice, but reality is this> The plane looks like it can be used again without major repairs so this qualifies as a "GREAT LANDING" as opposed to a ''good landing'' in which you can only walk away.
So, a lot of monday morning quarterbacking, but few willing to play ball.
i have a feeling he could have planted it very near the 1000' mark but held off for a smoother touchdown.
i also have a feeling that few on this forum could handle this landing as well as the actual pilot (and gee that plane sure looks familiar , distinctive paint job).
It is better of course to touchdown nicely on that 1000' marker, on speed, everything nice, but reality is this> The plane looks like it can be used again without major repairs so this qualifies as a "GREAT LANDING" as opposed to a ''good landing'' in which you can only walk away.
So, a lot of monday morning quarterbacking, but few willing to play ball.
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Should have been a G/A, looked reckless to me. Looked like there was a much larger AA aircraft at the gate. It was hard to tell from the video, other than clearly being an unstable approach it appeared the final turn was short and extreme. Really lucky that this laps of judgment and failure to acknowledged it as they floated down the RWY was not disastrous.
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dear john smith
hope you enjoy the PM I sent you.
grounded 27: laps of judgement? did you mean lapse?
And gentlemen of the forum, of course stable approaches, landing in touchdown zones are the meat and potatoes of our profession. But this is one landing and the pilot doesn't kill anyone. I know people who have crashed off a stable approach.
What this video shows is FLYING THE PLANE and not just pushing the buttons.
hope you enjoy the PM I sent you.
grounded 27: laps of judgement? did you mean lapse?
And gentlemen of the forum, of course stable approaches, landing in touchdown zones are the meat and potatoes of our profession. But this is one landing and the pilot doesn't kill anyone. I know people who have crashed off a stable approach.
What this video shows is FLYING THE PLANE and not just pushing the buttons.
SkyGod
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Bad decision making, they should have gone around.
Have flown in to that airport hundreds of times, mandatory go around if you don't in the touch down zone, which is clearly defined.
Have flown in to that airport hundreds of times, mandatory go around if you don't in the touch down zone, which is clearly defined.
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They should have gone around. No discussion.
I as well have landed there in a 727 many times, you touch down in the touchdown zone or go around.
Again, no discussion.
I as well have landed there in a 727 many times, you touch down in the touchdown zone or go around.
Again, no discussion.
No kudos to either of these pilots.
The situation was entirely of their own making.
The circling approach was too tight and badly flown.
Even as the aircraft passed the camera it should have been obvious that to continue the approach was a very high risk proposition.
The only justification for continuing the approach beyond this point, would be an inability to go around, due to, for instance, lack of fuel.
Not you, by any chance, Sky? 
The situation was entirely of their own making.
The circling approach was too tight and badly flown.
Even as the aircraft passed the camera it should have been obvious that to continue the approach was a very high risk proposition.
The only justification for continuing the approach beyond this point, would be an inability to go around, due to, for instance, lack of fuel.
i also have a feeling that few on this forum could handle this landing as well as the actual pilot (and gee that plane sure looks familiar , distinctive paint job).
Last edited by Mach Jump; 10th Mar 2015 at 20:45. Reason: Added quote and question.
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Gentlemen, as I have just sent another PM to the kindly john smith, I challenge any of you to put up or shut up.
Right now, if you are so aghast at this less than perfect landing, REPORT the pilot/plane/airline to the authority which governs this area.
Anyone reporting should indicate this on their next post.
Any of you ever land a little long? Are any of you capable of "cowboying it up" in an emergency when you don't have time to do a stable apch? (no , this guy wasn' t on fire).
have fun, and a good pilot can talk about decision making while watching a youtube , but it takes a real pilot to FLY.
Right now, if you are so aghast at this less than perfect landing, REPORT the pilot/plane/airline to the authority which governs this area.
Anyone reporting should indicate this on their next post.
Any of you ever land a little long? Are any of you capable of "cowboying it up" in an emergency when you don't have time to do a stable apch? (no , this guy wasn' t on fire).
have fun, and a good pilot can talk about decision making while watching a youtube , but it takes a real pilot to FLY.
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Of course we have all screwed up, without exception. However we were invited to comment on the landing by the thread author. This to my knowledge has been done.
It is an education. As mentioned previously, "learn from others mistakes as we wont live long enough to make them all ourselves". That landing is an excellent illustration how not to do it. I would have thought the Captain and F/O would have learn't from that experience. If they didn't, then they are in real trouble along with their poor passengers.
It is an education. As mentioned previously, "learn from others mistakes as we wont live long enough to make them all ourselves". That landing is an excellent illustration how not to do it. I would have thought the Captain and F/O would have learn't from that experience. If they didn't, then they are in real trouble along with their poor passengers.
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being an american I don't know what a "WALT" is?
the airbus, also known as a plane with permanent training wheels makes up for a robust ability to fly.
I wonder how many could have done what the pilot in this video has done?
Certainly it is not the best way to fly, it is non standard and open to problems, but I do think that the button pushers who have lost the "touch'' to make things happen are talking way too much here.
I am reminded of EK Gann's book, in which he has a bonafide emergency and elects to spiral down through a hole in the clouds rather than do the published approached (in a C54).
No stable approach, circling below minimums and to top it off he taxis the burning plane to a parking spot on top of a fuel tank. I'm sure you remember this if you read the book.
He had the chops to back up what he had to do. I am saying that the video shows someone with chops and guts. Maybe no sense, but chops and guts.
And way in a different league than some on this forum.
And no one has gone on to report the pilot in the video. Talk is cheap, and some are downright poverty stricken.
Hope you all have the chops and never need to use them. I have a feeling the only chops some have is with chips
I want to add this, I tried to stir things up to get some heartfelt self examination. Are your flying "chops" as ready as they should be? Are you only capable of doing things ONE way?
I was always taught to not "TALK DOWN" to others, giving them the benefit of the doubt of intelligence as capable as anyone else.
Yet few "GOT IT".
But fortunately for me, Johnsmith has promised not to bother with me anymore and I look forward to that. (his pm indicated this along with his abilities to name call) let's see if he is a man of his word.
;-)
the airbus, also known as a plane with permanent training wheels makes up for a robust ability to fly.
I wonder how many could have done what the pilot in this video has done?
Certainly it is not the best way to fly, it is non standard and open to problems, but I do think that the button pushers who have lost the "touch'' to make things happen are talking way too much here.
I am reminded of EK Gann's book, in which he has a bonafide emergency and elects to spiral down through a hole in the clouds rather than do the published approached (in a C54).
No stable approach, circling below minimums and to top it off he taxis the burning plane to a parking spot on top of a fuel tank. I'm sure you remember this if you read the book.
He had the chops to back up what he had to do. I am saying that the video shows someone with chops and guts. Maybe no sense, but chops and guts.
And way in a different league than some on this forum.
And no one has gone on to report the pilot in the video. Talk is cheap, and some are downright poverty stricken.
Hope you all have the chops and never need to use them. I have a feeling the only chops some have is with chips
I want to add this, I tried to stir things up to get some heartfelt self examination. Are your flying "chops" as ready as they should be? Are you only capable of doing things ONE way?
I was always taught to not "TALK DOWN" to others, giving them the benefit of the doubt of intelligence as capable as anyone else.
Yet few "GOT IT".
But fortunately for me, Johnsmith has promised not to bother with me anymore and I look forward to that. (his pm indicated this along with his abilities to name call) let's see if he is a man of his word.
;-)
Last edited by skyhighfallguy; 10th Mar 2015 at 22:16.
SkyGod
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Wow. This is the new CRM.
If you don't report some you-tube screw-up to the Authorities, you can not say anything and the Captain on the jet floating half way down the runway is a good pilot because he did not kill anybody.
Not sure what planet this is from, but I don't want to be there
If you don't report some you-tube screw-up to the Authorities, you can not say anything and the Captain on the jet floating half way down the runway is a good pilot because he did not kill anybody.
Not sure what planet this is from, but I don't want to be there
Skyhighfallguy, I don't fly a push button aeroplane, the autopilot on mine is pretty crap and needs to be carefully managed. Visual hand flown approaches are the flavour of the day. So my hand flying skills are in no way rusty. However, if I had been the pilot who landed the aircraft in the op, I certainly wouldn't be holding it up as an example of good flying. It's the complete opposite, it is poor flying, and I hope that if I ever do a landing like that I'll be self aware enough to recognize it for the complete cock up it was and consider it a learning experience.
That's called "trolling" and generally isn't appreciated in forums populated by adults.
I want to add this, I tried to stir things up to get some heartfelt self examination.
i don't know the airfield apart from the various youtubes of app's and lndgs
this guy was lucky and if it had been wet (as mentioned) or the wind turned then the outcome would likely have been different
is that a taxiway/turnoff left he took there off the end of the runway or did he cross the dirt??
i thought it was a backtrack to the terminal?
thanks...
this guy was lucky and if it had been wet (as mentioned) or the wind turned then the outcome would likely have been different
is that a taxiway/turnoff left he took there off the end of the runway or did he cross the dirt??
i thought it was a backtrack to the terminal?
thanks...
skyhighfallguy might like to check this video which shows what real flying is. Hopefully he can detect the difference between the two crews.
http://youtu.be/36g83GkG1eU
http://youtu.be/36g83GkG1eU
spot on aerobat ; the 2 examples perfectly outline the difference between professionalism, sound decision making and good, appropriate handling. The first example is a classic demonstration of the complete opposite.
I asked the question a few months back about the viability of a FBW enhancement which slowly deploys the spoilers in situations such as this to "help" the plane onto the ground.
I was dismissed out of hand and I am sure my sanity was called into doubt in private!
Imagine my surprise when, a couple of weeks later, I read of exactly this technique being deployed (contrary to SOP I should add) on a floating landing like this into Grand Cayman. Aircraft was a 737-300. It was calculated that the captain's actions saved an overrun!
I was dismissed out of hand and I am sure my sanity was called into doubt in private!
Imagine my surprise when, a couple of weeks later, I read of exactly this technique being deployed (contrary to SOP I should add) on a floating landing like this into Grand Cayman. Aircraft was a 737-300. It was calculated that the captain's actions saved an overrun!
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dear doors to automatic
you have been on this forum long enough to know you will get shot down if you offer anything different than the tea and crumpets served as usual.
paraphrase from "stick and rudder": someday you will fly the plane right above the runway, pull a handle marked speed brake and just settle to the ground, all done flying.
allow me lattitude in the paraphrase, but you can look it up for yourself and it was written before we were born.
you have been on this forum long enough to know you will get shot down if you offer anything different than the tea and crumpets served as usual.
paraphrase from "stick and rudder": someday you will fly the plane right above the runway, pull a handle marked speed brake and just settle to the ground, all done flying.
allow me lattitude in the paraphrase, but you can look it up for yourself and it was written before we were born.
SkyGod
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Sure you can use spoilers to get "down" if you are floating, just like a turbo prop can pull reverse or beta, but floating is usually caused by lousy speak control and easy to avoid: Stay on speed during short final..
Doors to Automatic, sorry, but that's ridiculous. Pulling the spoilers out in flight (I find it very hard t believe you could do that in a 737 anyway, unless you are referring to the speedbrakes...) is not the way to make yourself land on the spot.
Go around and do the approach again, properly!
Go around and do the approach again, properly!
