Question on MPL Licence in USA
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Question on MPL Licence in USA
Does someone knows how the ICAO MPL ( multi crew pilot Licence ) is treated in the USA ? Did any US airline used them ?
Are they now totally obsolete now that the FAA changed the rules to 1500 hours flight experience to be seating in right seat airliner ?
Thanks . .
Are they now totally obsolete now that the FAA changed the rules to 1500 hours flight experience to be seating in right seat airliner ?
Thanks . .
The FAA has never gone down that path so no US airline has ever used them. Tried searching the FAA guidance for "multi crew license" (and licence just in case) and got nothing. The FAA will grant a private certificate to the holder of a private or higher foreign license but since a MCL holder doesn't meet the requirements of private license I'd say they're useless in FAA land.
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From the information I've read on several MPL syllabus proposals, they DO meet basic Private Pilot requirements, but neither Instrument Rating nor Commercial Pilot requirements.
Whether there is a Private Pilot check that would in fact give the pilot those privileges, is yet another question.
Whether there is a Private Pilot check that would in fact give the pilot those privileges, is yet another question.
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Thank you both , For info MPL is more and more used in Europe to put kids with 100 Hours flying experience on a C152 into the right seat of 737s and 320s. Ok, they have another 100h or so of sim , but still..
Re PPL , no as far as I understand it the MPL is only vaidid for one type and one airline, the one that is training you. You cannot fly privately ant not outside that airline .It is basically a student pilot licence.
Re PPL , no as far as I understand it the MPL is only vaidid for one type and one airline, the one that is training you. You cannot fly privately ant not outside that airline .It is basically a student pilot licence.
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Thank you both , For info MPL is more and more used in Europe to put kids with 100 Hours flying experience on a C152 into the right seat of 737s and 320s. Ok, they have another 100h or so of sim , but still..
Does someone knows how the ICAO MPL ( multi crew pilot Licence ) is treated in the USA ? Did any US airline used them ?
The USA does, and historically always had, a large and very active general aviation market. "Cadet airline pilot" programmes have never really evolved within that marketplace, probably because the level of resource from both the large military and general aviation sectors never made it necessary. There are a few prominent training schools and colleges that tailor similar programmes, although these are rarely tied into specific airlines induction programmes. The few that did, tended to have feeds into regional and 2nd/3rd tier airlines.
The MPL dovetails into an ATPL at around 1500 hours (with a few additional requirements,) in exactly the same way as a CPL/IR (with frozen ATPL subjects) does at exactly the same point and with the same requirements. The MPL is not tied to one type. It is (within the initial 1500 hour period) tied to the sponsoring airline. However it can be transferred to any other sponsoring airline (operating an MPL programme) within that initial period although likely that would rarely happen.
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And I believe they can add ratings to the license such as SEP class rating. By test in respect for the SEP and doing the course for MEP.
Quite what they would do about getting a SPA IR I don't know.
Quite what they would do about getting a SPA IR I don't know.
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Bealzebub :Many thanks for your detailed explanations . I know ICAO
Does not issue licenses , I should have written ICAO approved Licence . The MPL
dates only back from 2006 as far as I know to replace the traditional PPL/CPL/IR training cursus.
I naively thought that the minimum
240 hours of training mentioned were actual flying hours . I discovered recently they are not . I was investigated a recent Airprox involving an A319 of a major European airline when I discovered the PF has total flying time 270 h of which 178 on type all on line in the last 90 days . So the Guy was put on Line with less than 100 flying hours .
I then discovered that many airlines were introducing this MPL cadet training
Some put the guys on line training with as low as 70 flying hours , most on C152s . All OK with EASA .
I wondered if before the recent change to 1500h rule , if the FAA allowed this
Therefore my USA question .
Re your remark about MPL not restricted to a type, it says differently on the airlines web sites I checked .
If you can understand German this one is quite interesting .
Multi-Crew Pilot Licence | The Joy of Flying
You can see they say it is restricted to one airline , one multi crew aircraft type , you cannot transfer it to another type and to another airline and you cannot use it for single pilot private . that is what this (relatively large ) airline claims at least .
Does not issue licenses , I should have written ICAO approved Licence . The MPL
dates only back from 2006 as far as I know to replace the traditional PPL/CPL/IR training cursus.
I naively thought that the minimum
240 hours of training mentioned were actual flying hours . I discovered recently they are not . I was investigated a recent Airprox involving an A319 of a major European airline when I discovered the PF has total flying time 270 h of which 178 on type all on line in the last 90 days . So the Guy was put on Line with less than 100 flying hours .
I then discovered that many airlines were introducing this MPL cadet training
Some put the guys on line training with as low as 70 flying hours , most on C152s . All OK with EASA .
I wondered if before the recent change to 1500h rule , if the FAA allowed this
Therefore my USA question .
Re your remark about MPL not restricted to a type, it says differently on the airlines web sites I checked .
If you can understand German this one is quite interesting .
Multi-Crew Pilot Licence | The Joy of Flying
You can see they say it is restricted to one airline , one multi crew aircraft type , you cannot transfer it to another type and to another airline and you cannot use it for single pilot private . that is what this (relatively large ) airline claims at least .
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This IATA document (albeit two years old) may provide some background material for you.
An MPL holder would require a new type rating in order to change types (as would any other type of licence holder,) however they are not prevented from doing so simply by virtue of holding an MPL. The MPL holder is only tied to the sponsoring airline up to and including the successful conclusion of the IOE (Initial Operating Experience) phase and first line check. After that they can transfer to another airline operating an MPL programme subject to type rating and adaption to the SOP's of the new airline.
An MPL holder would require a new type rating in order to change types (as would any other type of licence holder,) however they are not prevented from doing so simply by virtue of holding an MPL. The MPL holder is only tied to the sponsoring airline up to and including the successful conclusion of the IOE (Initial Operating Experience) phase and first line check. After that they can transfer to another airline operating an MPL programme subject to type rating and adaption to the SOP's of the new airline.
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The MPL is an evolution and refinement of the approved integrated fATPL airline training programmes that have been in existence for many decades now.
Are there any MPL pilots who have achieved an ATP in Europe?
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bealzebub: thanks for the IATA doc , confirm what I was told regarding minimum actual flying experience
So my understanding is that the FAA does not recognize this and no US airline has used MPL . Correct ?
Talking to a Capt that flies for an airline using this , he said it not too bad , better an MPL kid with 70h and 200h sim than a CPL with 250h and 50h sim .
Unless of course sh*t hit the fan in bad weather where in both cases you pretty much on your own .
With raising the bar to 1500h The FAA got it right if you ask me .
So my understanding is that the FAA does not recognize this and no US airline has used MPL . Correct ?
Talking to a Capt that flies for an airline using this , he said it not too bad , better an MPL kid with 70h and 200h sim than a CPL with 250h and 50h sim .
Unless of course sh*t hit the fan in bad weather where in both cases you pretty much on your own .
With raising the bar to 1500h The FAA got it right if you ask me .
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You are correct. The US FAA has not approved MPL, so no US airlines use it. I don't know if there is a specific interpretation regarding the acceptability of the MPL for a required crewmember on a foreign airline operation to/from the US.
I just finished scanning through the IATA "Best Practices" document. The one thing that hit me most was the repeated claim that PPL training in light single-engine airplanes is "irrelevant" to modern airline operations. IMO, we use light SE airplanes to gain air sense and experience at a reasonable cost. If we were to expand on his argument, we might even conclude that more real flight experience in airliners is preferable...
I also found it interesting that Hong Kong continues the requirement for a formal PPL and IR prior to continuation of the MPL to the real airplane...
Overall, the document is NOT a rigorous analysis of the MPL program. It is apparent to me that the author is an MPL proponent and has skewed his analysis accordingly.
I just finished scanning through the IATA "Best Practices" document. The one thing that hit me most was the repeated claim that PPL training in light single-engine airplanes is "irrelevant" to modern airline operations. IMO, we use light SE airplanes to gain air sense and experience at a reasonable cost. If we were to expand on his argument, we might even conclude that more real flight experience in airliners is preferable...
I also found it interesting that Hong Kong continues the requirement for a formal PPL and IR prior to continuation of the MPL to the real airplane...
Overall, the document is NOT a rigorous analysis of the MPL program. It is apparent to me that the author is an MPL proponent and has skewed his analysis accordingly.
It is (within the initial 1500 hour period) tied to the sponsoring airline.
We do have placed our MPL pilots with several other airlines across national borders within europe without any problem at all. It is impossible to place them with airlines in countries that do not recognize the MPL of course, for example into the middle east.
As said above there is no type lock, due to misjudged fleet demand we have actually typed our MPL students on up to three types within their first year.
Both airlines mentioned in the link posted by ATC Watcher above give their cadets a normal PPL during their core phase and let them fly multi engine IFR in real aircraft additionally to their FNPT and lateron full flight simulator training. Lufthansa uses Cessna CJ1s for that and Air Berlin Piper Seminoles. However Air Berlin has moved away from MPL training, not because of bad experience but rather because their main investor (an airline from the middle east that is unmentionable on these fora) demanded it, since they want those cadets after a few hours of experience on their widebody aircraft.
