Why aren't ship terms like "Starboard" used in aviation
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Why aren't ship terms like "Starboard" used in aviation
One time I was flying and we were told to look for traffic at our 3 o'clock (I was the FO on a commercial flight in the US). When I found the traffic, I stated that I had the traffic off of our starboard side to the Capt. The Capt. looked puzzled.
Just wondering why nautical terms like "Port," "Starboard," etc. never made their way into aviation? Can't these said terms be used in conjunction with the clock terms such as 3 o'clock, even though the clock is more accurate??
Your thoughts please.
Just wondering why nautical terms like "Port," "Starboard," etc. never made their way into aviation? Can't these said terms be used in conjunction with the clock terms such as 3 o'clock, even though the clock is more accurate??
Your thoughts please.
Bottums Up
Port & Starboard, synonymous with 9 o'clock & 3 o'clock have been used frequently in my 30 years in the industry.
Why else would we have been taught "there's a little port left in the bottle" as sprog pilots?
Why else would we have been taught "there's a little port left in the bottle" as sprog pilots?
Bottums Up
Thinking more about your OP aviationluver, perhaps the Captain looked puzzled because starboard is anywhere from 12:01 through to 5:29, whereas 3o'clock is far more descriptive of the position of said traffic.
An aircraft crossing one's track at 3 o'clock is probably not as much of a threat as one at 1 o'clock, yet both are starboard.
An aircraft crossing one's track at 3 o'clock is probably not as much of a threat as one at 1 o'clock, yet both are starboard.
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Along time ago in a different world the use of Starboard and Port were the standards used. The USAF Air Defense Command with Ground Controlled Intercept controllers used these terms. However the reality of it was the Port and Starboard were often too hard to interpret when the radios were overloaded within a multi bogey environment. The Navy aviators were perfectly comfortable with P and S but the land lubber Zooms were easily confused. The USAF tried to use clock positions as a next step but that was equally confusing. Too many of the Zooms had digital watches and "well whats a guy to do". Then as it settled out the calls were semi standardized as right or left with the clock position secondary in the sequence. i.e. Racer one, Bandit left eleven high engaged. Or something on that order. Prior to this when the Aggressors showed up the Calls went something like this. "THERE HE IS" WHERE" "RIGHT THERE" Then the calm voice of the Aggressor says "Atoll on the left A-7 Kill, Knock it off." Hence left and right. At least that's how I remember it. And I was a Zoom so I am allowed to pick on them.
Nitpicker.... "the other starboard".
I guess you mean larboard
We probably see less nautical terminology in flying as time goes by because there are (proportionally) less sailors in the industry than there once was. But we still measure speed in knots, which is nautical miles per hour. That's kinda, well, nautical.
One bloke I flew with regularly (Slim, a real gentleman) used to say "finish main engines" when he was pining for the Grey Line.
I guess you mean larboard
We probably see less nautical terminology in flying as time goes by because there are (proportionally) less sailors in the industry than there once was. But we still measure speed in knots, which is nautical miles per hour. That's kinda, well, nautical.
One bloke I flew with regularly (Slim, a real gentleman) used to say "finish main engines" when he was pining for the Grey Line.
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When traffic information is passed by ATC the clock is used as it is more accurate than just "port" or "starboard" . Those terms are used, however, in cases such as "xxx your port wing has fallen off", or "xxx your starborard undercarriage is on fire".
Last edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR; 21st Oct 2013 at 08:56.
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"THERE HE IS" WHERE" "RIGHT THERE"
Overhead a city centre.
From the back seat, "Look, there it is"
From the front seat, "Where?"
From the back, "Look, that car there!"
After three or four years they still did it, every time. No way the buggers would learn a thing.
Plod!!
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Ah, yes, the Plod. The ones on the ground were best for passing helpful information.
Such as when we were trying to locate a "runner".
"You're just about overhead now. If you look down now, you can see me standing under the street light.."
We were over a major city! Gave us quite a bit of choice.
But the best laugh I had was the policeman who mistook a Boeing 737 being vectored for the ILS for us, in our Squirrel helicopter.
"Yes, I can see you over me now! Turn left there.... No, TURN LEFT NOW! No, you've gone right past, come back round! I say again....."
We were still twelve miles away at the time, on climb out from base.
Such as when we were trying to locate a "runner".
"You're just about overhead now. If you look down now, you can see me standing under the street light.."
We were over a major city! Gave us quite a bit of choice.
But the best laugh I had was the policeman who mistook a Boeing 737 being vectored for the ILS for us, in our Squirrel helicopter.
"Yes, I can see you over me now! Turn left there.... No, TURN LEFT NOW! No, you've gone right past, come back round! I say again....."
We were still twelve miles away at the time, on climb out from base.
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Still sometimes used, port and starboard, but as another respondent has said, in tight time critical events it may not be the best directional cue. And you've got cabincrew facing backwards in the cabin, even more confusing for them sometimes.
A former airline I worked for had "ship's papers" as one of the last pre-start checklist items.
The anodyne airline food is still served from the galley.
Checked baggage, freight and dogs go in the holds.
The aircrafts lower surfaces and structure have been referred to as the keel or bilge (area).
Escape hatches are evident on the 747 and possibly other types.
The so-called navigation lights are the same colours and display through the same angles as nautical craft.
Forward and aft are used to describe locations in aircraft.
The wings have had spars, main and aft, until recently.
The fin has a rudder flopping around at the back (aft) end.
The SLF travel in the cabin.
There's the captain, first and second officer, steward and stewardess, loader, the tug for pushback or relocating.
Galley drains and toilet washbasins waste water leave via a heated drain mast.
And of course that wonderful animal, who's averted disaster often in the past, the (flight) engineer, some of whom wore uniforms having purple stripes adjacent to the normal stripes, allegedly as a tribute to the engineers of the "Titanic" who kept the lights on to the last, costing their lives.
And so on, I'm sure others will be able to complete the glossary................
A former airline I worked for had "ship's papers" as one of the last pre-start checklist items.
The anodyne airline food is still served from the galley.
Checked baggage, freight and dogs go in the holds.
The aircrafts lower surfaces and structure have been referred to as the keel or bilge (area).
Escape hatches are evident on the 747 and possibly other types.
The so-called navigation lights are the same colours and display through the same angles as nautical craft.
Forward and aft are used to describe locations in aircraft.
The wings have had spars, main and aft, until recently.
The fin has a rudder flopping around at the back (aft) end.
The SLF travel in the cabin.
There's the captain, first and second officer, steward and stewardess, loader, the tug for pushback or relocating.
Galley drains and toilet washbasins waste water leave via a heated drain mast.
And of course that wonderful animal, who's averted disaster often in the past, the (flight) engineer, some of whom wore uniforms having purple stripes adjacent to the normal stripes, allegedly as a tribute to the engineers of the "Titanic" who kept the lights on to the last, costing their lives.
And so on, I'm sure others will be able to complete the glossary................
Last edited by BARKINGMAD; 24th Oct 2013 at 16:07.
Relative to the original post, lookouts on HM Ships always report visual contacts as "Bearing Red 45", "Bearing Green 30", "Dead ahead" etc, which would appear to obviate the problem.
Port or starboard engine vs left and right
aft stairs vs back stairs
upper deck vs upstairs
I don't think we've come as far as using 8 bells vs the 8 O'clock position on the windscreen
aft stairs vs back stairs
upper deck vs upstairs
I don't think we've come as far as using 8 bells vs the 8 O'clock position on the windscreen
Avoid imitations
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I did the RAF QHI course with a Navy pilot as my "stick buddy" (we were required to teach our "stick buddy" the flying lessons we had been shown on the course, to practice before "giving back" the lesson to the staff instructor).
In the RAF we used terms like "turning right / left", or in the hover when yawing we said "turning the tail left/right" as appropriate.
Instead he would say "Going about port / starboard" which caused me to say "Er what?" on a few occasions until I got used to it.
In the RAF we used terms like "turning right / left", or in the hover when yawing we said "turning the tail left/right" as appropriate.
Instead he would say "Going about port / starboard" which caused me to say "Er what?" on a few occasions until I got used to it.
captain, first and second officer
Last edited by galaxy flyer; 28th Oct 2013 at 21:36.
