Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > Questions
Reload this Page >

How would you handle this Crew Oxygen Low situation

Wikiposts
Search
Questions If you are a professional pilot or your work involves professional aviation please use this forum for questions. Enthusiasts, please use the 'Spectators Balcony' forum.

How would you handle this Crew Oxygen Low situation

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:28
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How would you handle this Crew Oxygen Low situation

The US Airways Airbus A330-300 aircraft (N278AY), operating as flight AWE703, was enroute at FL380 from Frankfurt (EDDF) to Philadelphia (KPHL). About 350 nm South East of St. John's the crew received a low oxygen warning indication, pressure less than 600 psi and decreasing. The crew declared an emergency and offset course to the North. AWE703 descended to 10000 feet without clearance, one flight was in trail by 4 minutes longitudinal separation at FL360. The oxygen quantity continued to decrease so the crew requested a diversion to the nearest airport. Clearance was issued direct to St. John's (CYYT) once AWE703 was clear of traffic. To expedite the landing the crew declared an emergency. AWE703 landed without further incident with ARFF on standby. Maintenance found a small leak in the pilot's oxygen mask. They swapped the captain's mask with the observer seat mask, then serviced the oxygen bottle. A leaks check was performed with no faults found, and the aircraft was released for flight.
JammedStab is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:32
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: by the seaside
Age: 74
Posts: 567
Received 18 Likes on 14 Posts
Did they not have portable crew oxygen systems or pax O2 available?
And why descend to 10000ft?
blind pew is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:42
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK.
Posts: 4,390
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Situation occurred - captain made decision - aircraft landed safely.
Well done!
Basil is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:49
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: A few degrees South
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Making a storm in a glass of water..
latetonite is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:55
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Willemstad, Curacao
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
its a bit harsh, but if anything wouldve happened, then the captain would be to blame, because the warning was registered. if there was no warning you could say making a storm out of a glass of water.
s_bakmeijer is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:55
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In the UK it would be called a storm in a tea cup ! The thread not the actions of the captain !

Accidents are made up if a number of failures that come together to form a major problem ( Swiss cheese ) in this case the captain having had one failure took action to secure the situation so that another system failure ( cabin presurissatuon or cabin smoke) would not result in a disaster.

I for one think his actions were 100 % correct.

Last edited by A and C; 25th Jul 2013 at 13:57.
A and C is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 13:55
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: heathrow
Posts: 294
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Worth reading the UPS 747 thread to see what can happen if one of the pilots` oxygen systems are not functioning properly.

Pretty much perfect decision making as far as I can see.

Last edited by cjhants; 25th Jul 2013 at 14:02.
cjhants is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 14:01
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Difficult call. You might be able to somewhat mitigate the Depress scenario by a slight descent, Pax oxy etc.

However, you are now very exposed in any Smoke / Fumes / Fire scenario.

Whilst I might not have handled it exactly as the above account states, that does not mean I criticise what this crew (apparently) did. It would certainly be a brave decision to carry on as if nothing had happened, and far riskier to crew and Pax than, say, flying a 4 Eng ac on 3 engines across the pond

NoD
NigelOnDraft is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 14:08
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern Anglia
Age: 75
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In the UK it would be called a storm in a tea cup
Which on first reading was my reaction too, then (and I'm not a pilot) when you start to think about it and making the assumption there is only one O2 bottle for both front seats* it sounds like he did exactly the right thing. Explosive decompression at FL380 + no O2 for either of the folk driving = not good? So get to 10,000 and then pop into your friendly local airport to pick up some more O2 is probably the right thing!
I'm sure someone who knows SOP will be along here shortly though!

* If correct that does seems odd to me?

Last edited by fenland787; 25th Jul 2013 at 14:10.
fenland787 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 14:41
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Western USA
Posts: 555
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Overkill, perhaps, to prevent overkill resulting from creeping failures. Anyone can be a good Monday morning quarterback. I suspect the crew did what they did with the company's blessing. No bruised people or dented airplane. What's not to like?
Desert185 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 14:42
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
what about it happening mid pacific ?

This was always a good command course question...

To really get the discussion going.... what about it happening mid pacific ?
Good Business Sense is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 14:50
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Limboland
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
cjhants,

Exactly!!!
Smoketrails is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 15:14
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: have I forgotten or am I lost?
Age: 71
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
arrrooogahhh arrooogahhh dive dive dive.

(yeah I know it's not a submarine but that sounds more dramatic)

...because if there had been a situation where they needed the oxygen they would have all ended up dead. pilots, cabin crew and passengers.

when you are in command you need to make the command decisions!
dubbleyew eight is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 15:22
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: S 51 N
Age: 84
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
cold tea ??

first - the case happened two weeks ago !
second - the crew did all correct !
third - turning towards YYT took the flight off the NAT they used !
fourth - while descending outside Radar coverage TCAS / ACAS covered the remaining o,xx % of a collision risk!!
So why boiling up cold tea ??
Jo
Annex14 is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 15:34
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
and presumably it's not just the loss of a safety system that's of concern but also where the oxygen is going and what that oxygen might do if there was a fire.
cwatters is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 15:54
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Róisín Dubh
Posts: 1,389
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
"and presumably it's not just the loss of a safety system that's of concern but also where the oxygen is going and what that oxygen might do if there was a fire."

Exactly, pure oxygen coming into contact with any kind of grease and BANG
Una Due Tfc is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 16:50
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exactly, pure oxygen coming into contact with any kind of grease and BANG
It's not a great marriage, but takes more than 'contact'.
poorjohn is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 16:53
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To really get the discussion going.... what about it happening mid pacific ?
Declare emergency
Get hold of a portable O2 source if there is one as cover
Set course for nearest suitable airport

Not really much else one can do
Ian W is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 17:13
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
They declared an emergency, but descended to 10000ft without clearance? Seems odd they didn't advise about the descent but I believe the captain made the right decision.

Must be commended for following the rules and turning North when travelling west in order to get off the track for the emergency descent so as not to risk a collision with other traffic on the track!

Bravo crew

S.C.
Sky_Captain is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2013, 17:33
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A diversion, yes. An emergency? No. Not in my cockpit.
ManaAdaSystem is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.