LHR runway use
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LHR runway use
Hi all, a question for anyone that can answer it please.
When arriving into LHR today we were given 27L for landing, when I went for a coffee just now I've noticed they are still do 27L arrivals and haven't switched it over to 27R after 3.30pm. I know that for 9R/L they alternate as much as possible, but noticed when It is changed to a 27R/L departure/arrival they don't change it as often. An asnwer to settle this would be appreciated.
When arriving into LHR today we were given 27L for landing, when I went for a coffee just now I've noticed they are still do 27L arrivals and haven't switched it over to 27R after 3.30pm. I know that for 9R/L they alternate as much as possible, but noticed when It is changed to a 27R/L departure/arrival they don't change it as often. An asnwer to settle this would be appreciated.
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There could be variety of reasons, e.g. Work in progress on taxiways adjacent to one of the runways, ILS or lighting problems, work in the undershoot, etc, etc.
Hold on a minute - surely Heathrow has been on easterlies the last few days?
Hold on a minute - surely Heathrow has been on easterlies the last few days?
Last edited by HEATHROW DIRECTOR; 8th Mar 2013 at 19:44.
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My friend landed here yesterday and said they had a 27L landing and never switched and same all day today. Didn't look like there was any work being done, but vis hasn't been great these past 2 days so unless 27R is visual landings only, but then again ive been here in perfect condition's and it been constant 27L landings?
Don't think I've ever seen a take off from 27L.
Don't think I've ever seen a take off from 27L.
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Thanks HD, I was thinking it was just me. I am also quite certain LL have been on the easterlies for the last few days.
SQnovice, are you sure your friend did actually land on 27L and not on 09L? because it would all make sense if I take your posts and exchange "27" for "09". Takeoffs from 09L is rare but landings no 09R do happen, which might be what happened to your friend.
And I have seen many takeoffs from 27L, and 27R.
SQnovice, are you sure your friend did actually land on 27L and not on 09L? because it would all make sense if I take your posts and exchange "27" for "09". Takeoffs from 09L is rare but landings no 09R do happen, which might be what happened to your friend.
And I have seen many takeoffs from 27L, and 27R.
Last edited by Crazy Voyager; 8th Mar 2013 at 22:27.
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Just realized my huge mistake and yes it is 9L that I'm talking about, they don't seem to switch over when they are on easterlies, is there any particular reason as to why they don't switch?
Sorry for the confusion folks...
Sorry for the confusion folks...
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Carnford agreement, Cranford Agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Cranford Agreement is no more. The reason LHR doesn't alternate the runways on Easterlies is because the existing taxiway and runway RETS/RATS infrastructure won't support the operation.
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I was told about 2 years ago it was going out the window, so it's finally happened then.
Any clues on how long the construction works to build more holding points for 09L and more RETs for 09R will take? I also believe the runways are due for resurfacing in the next few years, a lot of work to come it seems!
Any clues on how long the construction works to build more holding points for 09L and more RETs for 09R will take? I also believe the runways are due for resurfacing in the next few years, a lot of work to come it seems!
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Understand all now, but think the agreement has ended now like Norman said, if you take a look at the EGLL jepp charts, the holding area by 9L isn't sufficient enough to hold large aircraft, the proximity of the nortern stands on T5a look like they might get quite a draft unlike those on the southern side.
It does seem surprising that it's taken nearly 70 years for Heathrow to get round to providing adequate hold points for 09L. The Cranford agreement didn't preclude such departures when operationally necessary, eg southern runway ws blocked, under maintenance, etc. Likewise the extra RETs for 09R, if you are down to single runway on easterlies these have surely been necessary for decades.
One aspect is that for for departures on 09R, aircraft hold on both sides of the runway, those coming from T4 and Cargo being on the opposite side to the others, whereas for 09L departures everybody is on the same side, so you do need more space there. T5 is also, somewhat surprisingly, not symmetrically placed relative to the runways, on its south (09R) side the end gates have their own manoeuvring ramp separated from the two taxiways, whereas at the north end it shares the inner taxiway. Those gates, the BA domestic ones, are going to be a real nuisance to get in/out of with 09L departures all holding behind them.
One aspect is that for for departures on 09R, aircraft hold on both sides of the runway, those coming from T4 and Cargo being on the opposite side to the others, whereas for 09L departures everybody is on the same side, so you do need more space there. T5 is also, somewhat surprisingly, not symmetrically placed relative to the runways, on its south (09R) side the end gates have their own manoeuvring ramp separated from the two taxiways, whereas at the north end it shares the inner taxiway. Those gates, the BA domestic ones, are going to be a real nuisance to get in/out of with 09L departures all holding behind them.
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My point exactly, the northern stands taxi straight on to holding points for 9L, i could imagine them being great fun on an evening, 20-30 mins holding just for a gate? Also it could cause delays when requesting pushback into other holding traffic. Plus, taxi's from T4 and cargo would last a long time, they'd burn a lot of fuel for taxiing and holding even before they have taken off.
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<<Plus, taxi's from T4 and cargo would last a long time, they'd burn a lot of fuel for taxiing and holding even before they have taken off.>>
What, you mean like aircraft from the south side taxying to 27R?
What, you mean like aircraft from the south side taxying to 27R?
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depends which side of the coin your looking at, taxi's from T4 to 27R aren't that usually long, T4 to 27R can be roughly 15-20 mins depending on time of day, YET- if you turn the coin over landing on 27R if you have a long roll out then taxiing from near T5 back to T4 can be 30 mins some times prob the same taxi time and fuel burn as a taxi from T4 to 9L?
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HD,
The usual restrictions for the use of 09L departures still remain which I think you'd recognise.....owing to noise abatement problems and taxiway congestion, 09L is not to be used for departures unless even 09R is closed, 09L has better RVR or runway state, or 09L has suffered approach aid failures.
Or words to that effect.
The usual restrictions for the use of 09L departures still remain which I think you'd recognise.....owing to noise abatement problems and taxiway congestion, 09L is not to be used for departures unless even 09R is closed, 09L has better RVR or runway state, or 09L has suffered approach aid failures.
Or words to that effect.
Hopefully the aim of the works is to permit full mixed mode on both runways, in which case T4 will presumably always use the south runway - although what's easiest on the ground is going to be interesting in the air; maybe one of our ATC friends above can give a little precis of how this is going to work.