Landing in FZRA
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Landing in FZRA
In the airline I work for we cannot take off in FZRA, but in -FZRA if the holdover time permits it.. What about landing in FZRA, would that be allowed? Anyone has the same situation in their airline?
Last edited by EightsOnPylons; 21st Jan 2013 at 20:49.
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Does your aircraft have de-icing systems? Is it certified for flight in icing conditions? If so then where is the problem? Yes you can land in FZRA.
Taking off is different in that the ice will be gathering on the upper, lift generating, surfaces while taxying. On approach it will be hitting the front of the wing, which is generally equipped to remove ice. Probably.
Taking off is different in that the ice will be gathering on the upper, lift generating, surfaces while taxying. On approach it will be hitting the front of the wing, which is generally equipped to remove ice. Probably.
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Be careful there DB6 - no aircraft that I am aware of is certified for flight into known icing conditions where those icing conditions are a result of freezing rain. You're right that landing is different from take-off, but still - some AFM's limit the precipitation type so it is incorrect to use a catch-all phrase.
Eightsonpylons: consider this document from Transport Canada. Granted, it talks about takeoff when your question asked about landing, but it covers the FZRA issue. Winter Operations - Transport Canada
I agree with the first poster - why chance it? If your alternate airport is close by and they are not reporting FZRA, then go there. If, however, you find yourself on final encountering FZRA, then assess, but a landing may be more prudent then continuing flight and diverting in those conditions. I once had icing in FZRA so bad that the airplane was descending with full power and props in a Dash-8...I don't want to imagine the same situation occurring down near the ground.
Eightsonpylons: consider this document from Transport Canada. Granted, it talks about takeoff when your question asked about landing, but it covers the FZRA issue. Winter Operations - Transport Canada
I agree with the first poster - why chance it? If your alternate airport is close by and they are not reporting FZRA, then go there. If, however, you find yourself on final encountering FZRA, then assess, but a landing may be more prudent then continuing flight and diverting in those conditions. I once had icing in FZRA so bad that the airplane was descending with full power and props in a Dash-8...I don't want to imagine the same situation occurring down near the ground.
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The problem with FZRA, is the supercooled droplets strike the leading edge and RUNS BACK and freezes, mostly over the wing but also under. Being in FZRA even for say 15 sec's could cause a disastrous out come.
It is possible a pitch loss of control could proceed a large loss of lift on the main planes on some types of aircraft. An iced up elevator can play funny tricks.
Flying in FZRA, you are probably part of the icing, type test program.
It is possible a pitch loss of control could proceed a large loss of lift on the main planes on some types of aircraft. An iced up elevator can play funny tricks.
Flying in FZRA, you are probably part of the icing, type test program.
"Does your aircraft have de-icing systems? Is it certified for flight in icing conditions? If so then where is the problem? Yes you can land in FZRA".
No, not necessarily so.
Check the AFM approval for flight in icing conditions; this may not apply to all takeoff conditions and probably not FZRA or drizzle, both of which might also depend on a clear aircraft policy following de/anticing. Also check holdover tables / allowable conditions.
Approach and landing in FZRA may be subject to a separate AFM clearance, but normally this would not approve flight in severe icing conditions which could easily be the case for FZRA.
See EASA CS 25 icing certification and Appx C.
No, not necessarily so.
Check the AFM approval for flight in icing conditions; this may not apply to all takeoff conditions and probably not FZRA or drizzle, both of which might also depend on a clear aircraft policy following de/anticing. Also check holdover tables / allowable conditions.
Approach and landing in FZRA may be subject to a separate AFM clearance, but normally this would not approve flight in severe icing conditions which could easily be the case for FZRA.
See EASA CS 25 icing certification and Appx C.
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Ho hum, yes...the 'probably' at the end of my post is meant to mean 'all other things being equal' but I was too lazy to elaborate. There are any number of extra factors which may come into play e.g. the FZRA causing severe icing (I am assuming everyone is familar with most aircraft being certified for light or moderate only), the runway being a sheet of ice, the AOM specifically prohibiting it etc. etc., however that was not the question. The question was 'is landing in FZRA allowed' and the answer to that is yes. Or if you like - yes unless there is another reason for not doing so.
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I'd suggest the presence of FZRA might prompt alarm bells in the mind of the thinking pilot that go way beyond aitframe icing.
How do you know you'll be able to stop? At all.
Do you plan on leaving again anytime in the forseeable future, because decontaminating an aircraft coated in clear ice can be a serious problem.
But most of all, are you certificated to fly in it all (almost certainly not) and can you be sure the runway isnt a skating rink?
Just divert and let some other silly arse find out the hard way if he wants to badly enough.
Nothing, but nothing would make me even consider it for an instant.
Equally, no chef pilot I've ever met would question that decsion for an instant either.
Equals no- brainer.
How do you know you'll be able to stop? At all.
Do you plan on leaving again anytime in the forseeable future, because decontaminating an aircraft coated in clear ice can be a serious problem.
But most of all, are you certificated to fly in it all (almost certainly not) and can you be sure the runway isnt a skating rink?
Just divert and let some other silly arse find out the hard way if he wants to badly enough.
Nothing, but nothing would make me even consider it for an instant.
Equally, no chef pilot I've ever met would question that decsion for an instant either.
Equals no- brainer.
