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Positive Rate/Positive Climb?

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Positive Rate/Positive Climb?

Old 9th Aug 2012, 11:28
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Positive Rate/Positive Climb?

Could somebody please explain why after Take-Off in the Boeing FCTM the PM calls Positive Rate where as in the Airbus FCTM the PNF calls Positive Climb.

Apparently it's to do with where their get their information from. i.e. one determines it from the VSI and the IRS where as the other determines it from the Altimeter and the ADIRU which in the manufacturer's eyes determines the climb away.

Any substantive info would be welcome.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 12:26
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I think it's only manufacture/company fancy and it's only callout.
Pilots should confirm that they are really climbing by looking on VSI and altimeter, then call sth appropriate to PF (according to SOP).

Last edited by bluk; 9th Aug 2012 at 12:28.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 12:33
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FWIW my Boeing FCTM does refer to confirming positive rate of climb as part of the takeoff procedure but the standard callout, as detailed in the FCOM Part 1, is "positive climb".

The same callout, "positive climb", also applied on my previous Boeing type so I suspect you've been misinformed.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Aug 2012 at 12:42.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 13:28
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It changes every 10 years anyway..don't worry!
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 14:09
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positive climb is one where in 02 separate instrument inputs advise that u r climbing.
Conventional (without RA) os VSI and ALti
With advanced
RA is one and VSI is the other..

I suppose with the IVSI, one could use RA/IVSI/Alt..
and the call out could reflect which is the Second one one looks at..
Just my tupenny bit..
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 14:46
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Positive rate or positive climb calls after take-off.

Make sure that you do have a positive rate before selecting the undercarriage up. The VSI is not as good as the IVSI in giving you this information.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 14:58
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In the company I work for, the Pilot Monitoring (PM) calls 'positive rate'
when a positive climb is indicated on his / her Altimeter. B757 B767

I suppose it is all a question of Company history.

Last edited by mustbeaboeing; 9th Aug 2012 at 14:59.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 15:18
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I suppose it is all a question of Company history
I rather strongly suspect that's all there is to this.

It's been "positive climb" in my lot on all the large Boeings for over 20 years, irrespective of whether it's triple INS, triple IRS, ADIRU, VSI or IVSI, etc etc........

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Aug 2012 at 15:20.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 15:27
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Positive Rate- Source-VSI
Positive Climb - Source- RA or altimeter.

Nor a big issue in a medium , but a big one in a heavy. Very often you have positive rate just after rotating the nose wheel , but the MLG is still running.

Better to check the climb.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 18:15
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In my previous (EU legacy carrier) we said "positive climb" even though we flew mainly mediums, in my current (major SE Asian carrier) we say "positive rate" even though we operate widebodies exclusively... so yes, company history I suspect.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 18:20
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"positive rate" = VSI says we go up.
"positive climb" = we ARE going up!
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 18:20
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I was told it's because the VSI (being driven from the IRS) will give a positive rate of climb during rotation. Not a good time to select the wheels up so multiple sources used to confirm a climb (rad alt etc).
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 18:29
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FWIW

From a current Boeing Ops Manual/FCOM

P2... "Cross checks flight instruments and when radio height is increasing calls "Positive climb"

I suspect some of us are "sweating the small stuff" here, since rule one, common to us all, is: "don't crash"....the exact answer as to procedure and terminology is going to vary from company to company. IMHO the correct answer is do as your FCOM says, as your trainers teach and what your checkers check, regardless of whether it's a Boeing or an Airbus.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Aug 2012 at 18:31.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 18:33
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Positive rate, positive climb, Auto-throttles, Autothrust...Just one manufacturer trying to act like it's the innovator or something by not using the other's terms.
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Old 9th Aug 2012, 21:28
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I think the RA increasing is pretty important as you can have a positive RoC on the VSI and still be on the ground when there's a significant upslope. THR comes to mind.

The combination of the two will stop you raising the gear when the ground falls away temporarily but you're not actually going up...
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 03:01
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Boeing FCTM

"Retract the landing gear after a positive rate of climb is indicated on the Altimeter"


The Altimeter is the primary indication of a climb for Takeoff and Go-Around.


Altimeter requires a change in pressure to indicate a climb. There is some lag and will help to keep you safe in a windshear event.



The IVSI uses IRU/ADIRU and will indicate a climb with a pitch change, if you are not climbing it will return to zero. Some years ago Boeing removed VSI from the above requirement for a positive rate.


Rad Alt will indicate a climb if the terrain is falling away.


Why is there such a rush to get the gear up? I regularly see guys calling for gear up before the ground/flight relays open.

Last edited by Jetdriver; 19th Aug 2012 at 10:45.
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Old 15th Aug 2012, 21:54
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positive climb

I changed 3 companies flying Airbus all calling "positive climb"
Actually i find this call out a little bit strange as there would be no "negative" climb.
Arent i right?
Although i am so used to say positive climb , it makes much more sense to use "positive rate"
Different point of view
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Old 16th Aug 2012, 05:38
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I just use my best elevator voice and say "going up"
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Old 16th Aug 2012, 12:29
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Wiggy, I suspect you have company ammendments. Our stndard FCOM1 says
Verify a positive rate of climb on the altimeter and call “POSITIVE RATE.”
.
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Old 16th Aug 2012, 15:46
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"Why is there such a rush to get the gear up? I regularly see guys calling for gear up before the ground/flight relays open"

I suspect second stage climb?
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