Unrelated questions
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Unrelated questions
I have a couple of unrelated questions, which I thought I'd bundle into one thread.
1) I've noticed that pilots use the word 'departure' rather than 'take-off' in their pre-flight announcement ('We'll depart using the easterly runway'). I know about the changes in terminology following KLM at Tenerife accident and that the word 'take-off' must only be used by pilots and ATC to indicate an imminent manoeuvre for the benefit of other aircraft. My question is: is it just good practice to use the word 'departure' when speaking to passengers where such confusion should not arise, or is it actually a procedure (in case you were to accidentally transit a PA to ATC)?
2) On a Boeing 738, in identical weather conditions, same fuel and cargo load, how much difference is there in the V1/Vr speeds between an aircraft with, say, 20 passengers and one with, say, 180?
Have tried to make this question as specific as possible to avoid 'how long is a piece of string answers', but I am really interested to know what difference the passenger load actually makes. It is obviously significant since I have been on non-busy flights where they have blocked off rows for 'weight and balance reasons' (captain's words).
3) When you are in the stages of flight where things are happening very quickly (I am thinking in particular of a non-precision / 'tricky' approach) and there is little time to correct mistakes, does the Pilot Flying talk through aloud what s/he is doing so that the Pilot Monitoring understands and, if unhappy with something, can correct/challenge? For example, might you say 'I'm now reducing to 180 knots. I'm going to delay the turn slightly because I think I'll come in early otherwise'. That sort of thing. I realise that check-lists necessitate verbal communication between both pilots; I'm talking about the actual flying!
Thanks for your help.
Nick
1) I've noticed that pilots use the word 'departure' rather than 'take-off' in their pre-flight announcement ('We'll depart using the easterly runway'). I know about the changes in terminology following KLM at Tenerife accident and that the word 'take-off' must only be used by pilots and ATC to indicate an imminent manoeuvre for the benefit of other aircraft. My question is: is it just good practice to use the word 'departure' when speaking to passengers where such confusion should not arise, or is it actually a procedure (in case you were to accidentally transit a PA to ATC)?
2) On a Boeing 738, in identical weather conditions, same fuel and cargo load, how much difference is there in the V1/Vr speeds between an aircraft with, say, 20 passengers and one with, say, 180?
Have tried to make this question as specific as possible to avoid 'how long is a piece of string answers', but I am really interested to know what difference the passenger load actually makes. It is obviously significant since I have been on non-busy flights where they have blocked off rows for 'weight and balance reasons' (captain's words).
3) When you are in the stages of flight where things are happening very quickly (I am thinking in particular of a non-precision / 'tricky' approach) and there is little time to correct mistakes, does the Pilot Flying talk through aloud what s/he is doing so that the Pilot Monitoring understands and, if unhappy with something, can correct/challenge? For example, might you say 'I'm now reducing to 180 knots. I'm going to delay the turn slightly because I think I'll come in early otherwise'. That sort of thing. I realise that check-lists necessitate verbal communication between both pilots; I'm talking about the actual flying!
Thanks for your help.
Nick
Last edited by Nicholas49; 3rd Apr 2012 at 09:34.
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1) Never thought about it but probably said either. Are you asking in case the passengers might know about the aerodynamic 'departure' - I don't think many would?.
2) V1 is, of course, runway dependent. but both will change by roughly 20kts
3) In an ideal world one should communicate enough to keep the other pilot informed of what you are doing, especially if it is slightly (or majorly!) out of the 'norm'.
2) V1 is, of course, runway dependent. but both will change by roughly 20kts
3) In an ideal world one should communicate enough to keep the other pilot informed of what you are doing, especially if it is slightly (or majorly!) out of the 'norm'.
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BOAC, Thanks. RE. 1) No, I realise most passengers would not know the important distinction between 'departure' and 'take-off' in official comms terms. I was just wondering whether 'departure' is used in internal PAs (Ryanair uses the command 'Cabin Crew: Seats for Departure', for example) for the same reason: to avoid anyone overhearing the radio mistaking a reference to a take-off in twenty minutes for an imminent one.
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G'day Nicholas
1: My airline (Qantas regional) only has very general guidelines for normal passenger PA's. The first Tech crew P.A. is generally given established in the climb above transition (10,000 ft AGL in Oz). You'll only hear from us on the ground if there is a delay either in boarding or at the holding point.
Having said that, I've heard (and given) PA's using 'departure' and 'taking-off' about the same amount of times.
2: Dash-8 equivalent would be the difference in 16 and 19.5Tonne take-off. About 12kts difference in V1.
3: Depends on the crew. Most say something, but generally what BOAC said (i.e. enough for communication).
DIVOSH!
Having said that, I've heard (and given) PA's using 'departure' and 'taking-off' about the same amount of times.
2: Dash-8 equivalent would be the difference in 16 and 19.5Tonne take-off. About 12kts difference in V1.
3: Depends on the crew. Most say something, but generally what BOAC said (i.e. enough for communication).
DIVOSH!
