Who starts the engines?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Latvia
Who starts the engines?
May be somebody could share expirence about your company SOPs - which pilot normally does PFI and starts the engines? Is it always captain or PF/PM? I work for bizjet company and we operate light jets, sometimes without FA, so everything should be done by ourselves, including pax boarding. There is conflicting information all around - if only PIC is allowed to start the engines, then who will meet passengers and vice versa? At my point it is not quite good to let passengers wait couple of minutes for captain to close the door, buckle himself into the seat and just then push start button. At least our passengers would send a complaint imediately for such behaviour - just because they are always in a hurry.. Thanks in advance
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Joined: Feb 1997
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From: Duit On Mon Dei
I work for a large biz jet operation. Our SOPs says that the PIC starts the engines however, our SOPs are quite specific in that they say both crew must be seated for the engine start. The owners aren't going to notice 1 or 2 minutes.
(There are exceptions of course)
The fleet I'm on has no FA so one of us collects the owners and briefs them too.
They expect you to do the job according to the manufacturer and to your company's SOPs. While they pay for speed and efficiency, they should not expect you to break your own rules.
(There are exceptions of course)
The fleet I'm on has no FA so one of us collects the owners and briefs them too.
They expect you to do the job according to the manufacturer and to your company's SOPs. While they pay for speed and efficiency, they should not expect you to break your own rules.
Last edited by redsnail; 13th March 2012 at 16:47.
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: I wouldn't know.
Airline, but the type is used as business jet as well (B737). The right hand seat pilot selects the engine start switch to GRD which engages the starter, the left hand seat pilot will add the fuel (engine start lever to idle). Both pilots have to be in their respective seats for engine starts, usually it is done during pushback, only on taxy-out positions it is done on position.
Before engine starts all passengers have to be seated, external and internal doors have to be closed and all checklists up to that point as well as the departure briefing have to be completed.
But i guess airline and GA differ in that phase quite a bit depending on the guest in question.
Before engine starts all passengers have to be seated, external and internal doors have to be closed and all checklists up to that point as well as the departure briefing have to be completed.
But i guess airline and GA differ in that phase quite a bit depending on the guest in question.
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: The middle
The OP states that he works for a company operating light business jets, I am guessing probably with no APU, and probably also without a GPU due to saving cost / lack of facilities.
In the same situation our SOP was that the F/O would start number 2 when the passengers were approaching the aircraft, the captain would meet them and stow any last minute bags and do the safety briefing. If they boarded without an engine running you either had no lights or risked flattening batteries which on a citation were required for engine starting as the smaller turbines didn't use air starters.
Nothing wrong with this, both pilots had the same type rating and were trained in dealing with start malfunctions. There was no real safety issue as we are talking about a small jet with tail mounted engines.
On Challengers and HS125s with APUs then PF started the engines, but then we could board without them running and still have light and heat.
I believe the Boeing SOP of captain always handling the start levers comes from the FAA practice of having F/Os who hold a P2 or even no type rating, and thus might not be so well versed in dealing with start emergencies...
In the same situation our SOP was that the F/O would start number 2 when the passengers were approaching the aircraft, the captain would meet them and stow any last minute bags and do the safety briefing. If they boarded without an engine running you either had no lights or risked flattening batteries which on a citation were required for engine starting as the smaller turbines didn't use air starters.
Nothing wrong with this, both pilots had the same type rating and were trained in dealing with start malfunctions. There was no real safety issue as we are talking about a small jet with tail mounted engines.
On Challengers and HS125s with APUs then PF started the engines, but then we could board without them running and still have light and heat.
I believe the Boeing SOP of captain always handling the start levers comes from the FAA practice of having F/Os who hold a P2 or even no type rating, and thus might not be so well versed in dealing with start emergencies...
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Latvia
Many thanks to everybody for all comments!
Yes, excrab is right - we operate RA390 (no APU) and HS125, no GPU unless required by AFM, usually short legs, nervous passengers counting minutes. Normally we start No. 2 when passengers approaching, nothing bad if it is done by FO / PF.
Just there was a proposal in the company to change starting procedures to "Boeing style" what seems to me unnecessary and not very logical taking into account our specifics.
Thanks for support!
Yes, excrab is right - we operate RA390 (no APU) and HS125, no GPU unless required by AFM, usually short legs, nervous passengers counting minutes. Normally we start No. 2 when passengers approaching, nothing bad if it is done by FO / PF.
Just there was a proposal in the company to change starting procedures to "Boeing style" what seems to me unnecessary and not very logical taking into account our specifics.
Thanks for support!
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: North America
And THE correct answer is ...............
This question is not like a simple mathematical equation where there is one correct solution (answer). Often in aviation there is no single "right" answer; who starts the engines falls into this category. It can be either pilot, or perhaps both required present for the start sequence. Convincing arguments can be made for every position.
It is admirable that you seek the "correct" and "professional" answer, but my position is there is not a single answer. If I were in charge; I know what I would do for the operation I was responsible for but that does not make my methods correct for every application worldwide every time. It depends on who the "boss" is and what there world view and values are; those foundations will drive the business decisions.
If your organization is in that much of a hurry your organization has lost sight of what is more important but your organization will not see it that way.
Years ago I was flying for a corporation and was on the ground in Teterboro New Jersey watching another "professional' crew get the jet ready. They must have been in a hurry because both engines were running and nobody was in the cockpit, the FBO's (Fixed Based Operators {Ground Handlers}) ground crew had the nose wheel chocked while the flight crew was busy scurrying around. Ridiculous, or as my teenager says reDonkeylous.
It is admirable that you seek the "correct" and "professional" answer, but my position is there is not a single answer. If I were in charge; I know what I would do for the operation I was responsible for but that does not make my methods correct for every application worldwide every time. It depends on who the "boss" is and what there world view and values are; those foundations will drive the business decisions.
At my point it is not quite good to let passengers wait couple of minutes for captain to close the door, buckle himself into the seat and just then push start button. At least our passengers would send a complaint imediately for such behaviour - just because they are always in a hurry..
If your organization is in that much of a hurry your organization has lost sight of what is more important but your organization will not see it that way.
Years ago I was flying for a corporation and was on the ground in Teterboro New Jersey watching another "professional' crew get the jet ready. They must have been in a hurry because both engines were running and nobody was in the cockpit, the FBO's (Fixed Based Operators {Ground Handlers}) ground crew had the nose wheel chocked while the flight crew was busy scurrying around. Ridiculous, or as my teenager says reDonkeylous.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: Chichester West Sussex UK
In your type of specialised operation common sense suggests that if the Captain feels he should meet the pax then he should brief you to start the engines when he closes the door.
If you cannot do that (for whatever reason) he should brief you to greet the pax and he should start up after you close the door.
I really don't see why it matters how somebody else does it in more conventional ops.
If you cannot do that (for whatever reason) he should brief you to greet the pax and he should start up after you close the door.
I really don't see why it matters how somebody else does it in more conventional ops.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1
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From: nowhere
On the ATR I flew, the captain did all the starts to go flying. However, we did have what is called Hotel Mode, where the #2 prop is locked with the engine running to act like an APU. Many times, the F/O would do the start. Warmer starts in Hotel mode.
