Seniority

[Hobbit]

Here is a question for you: Your succesful company buys the assets of another bankrupt company to expand it's operation.. .What should happen to the poor fellows from the bankrupt company? . .They are allowed to negotiate their own contract and your union gives away your seniority in order not to upset them!!! Could this ever happen?. .Yes, and if it sounds unbelieveable this is normal practice in Switzerland, truly incredible!. .Unions hey, resign and give yourself a 2% pay rise.

[aspinwing]

Try this:

<a href="http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/en/Air/report2/airline_restructuring_relationships.htm" target="_blank">Seniority List !</a>

Hope you feel better <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Aviatrix69]

Aspinwing, you relate to a takeover in Canada. In Switzerland there is no takeover happening, it is not a merger of two companies or similar.

Crossair is expanding through buying assets of a bancrupt company and is giving a chance to thousands of employees to continue doing their work. Some have stronger unions with more balls and elbows than others, but it's up to the managemant to decide, if that is really the way they want it to work out.

And Hobbit, the seniority has not been given away yet, there are some harsh positions faceing each other. It's just that time is running out, and as you know, SR needs 45 days to accept a new CWA, and to get around this clause just puts them in a better position, but seriously I don't think Seniority will be sacrificed.

Cheers

[ooizcalling]

Back in the land of OZ and back a decade or so now when the situation was calm and stable, the union policy book had a clause that promoted an equitable intergration between the groups in the case of a takeover. Some time later a takeover was rumoured and did eventually happen, but in the period between the 'rumour' stage and the 'happen' stage the members of one of the groups, who had a significant majority in the union membership decided that 'equitable intergration' was not for them and pushed through an ammendment to the policy book removing that clause. Result: The minority group came out of it being pushed to the bottom of the 'new' list with restictions on what they could or could not do and the majority group gleaned all the benefits of the 'merger/takeover'.

So, when nobody was looking at an intergration situation Principles and Fair Play were paramount. When an intergration actually came along it was 'dog eat dog'. Human nature.... sadly !

And as far as concilliation or arbitration are concerned the result will only be considered a success when all parties are equally unhappy with the deal!

[Raas767]

Seniority will be worked out. You will need a fence for a few years, but seniority is the least of your problems right now and is deflecting you all from the real issue.. Pay.. .. .Fact. Switzerland will not be without a National carrier both for economic and nationalistic reasons.. .Fact. SR and Crossair represents just about all of the professional pilots in the whole country.. .Fact. Your colective leverage right now is enormous and without precedent.. .. .Stop bickering amongst each other and come together to extract, by force if necessary, a countract that is in line with your competition. An MD11 First Officer at your new airline will be making roughly 7000 u.s. per month. That, my friends, is a joke. I know that the term powerful union is a bit of an oximoron in your country, but you have a real opportunity here to make Swiss Airlines a truly great place to work with benefits and pay to match.. .What are they going to do? Fire you? No way.. .The ball is in your court. Place it well.. .. .End of lecture. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[EL_CORRUPTO]

Swissair (The airline, ya know !) went bankrupt and Crossair not. No good guys, no bad guys, just a matter of fact. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> . .A merger means "the union of two or more commercial interests or corporations" and since Swissair got busted, merger does not really apply in this case..... .As Aviatrix said, Crossair is expanding with the juicy leftovers of bankrupt Swissair. Here again, no loosers, no winners, just a matter of fact. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" /> The streamlined cost-structure of Crossair is for sure a big plus for the airline war ahead. And for the the success and survival of SWISS, it's the bucks in the company and share holder pockets at the end of the year which counts.. .A 35 to 50% pay cut for the former SR-drivers is indeed dramatic, but their LX-buddies could live with their salary level and so the SR-fellows can live with it.. .. .And studi,. .Before showing off about raising the LX-salaries close to former SR-levels, just get a life, get your masters degree in engineering at the ETH (I guess) first, then start working and earn money the hard way and learn how hard a company has to fight in real life to get the bucks in the pockets.. .Most of the LX-drivers had no federal support (SLS) to get into a pilots career, all bills paid by hard bucks..... .Indeed, several LX-pilots did not fit into the SR-frame. So what ? They are still good pilots and like all others always aiming for "the perfect flight".. .. .raas767. .. .You're probably one of those short sighted drivers always head down and never looking out of the window scanning the horizon for challenges and changes. Of course pay is important and you do not just want to live on dry bread and water. Nevertheless, going down from 300'000 swiss francs a year to 150'000 is dramatic, but you can still have a decent live with 150'000 and you still have the same job.. .. .Otherwise, I recommend that you keep the 300'000 a year, the company will get history within 2 years, you get fired, and the best thing you can do after having flown for more than 20 years is wiping the Apron or load the cargo of the 150'000 guys/girls who are still flying in a profound and successful company. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Cheers. .. .EL_CORRUPTO

[Aviatrix69]

El-Corupto, you have said it well.. .. .And it is not really all about pay. As the rumours go now, seniority might be implemented by entry date into SR group. That means at the top mainly SR, the bottom 300 surely LX (As all SR-Pilots of the last 3 years entry have already been fired... and what if they join Swiss again, will they be before those 300 lx?). . .The mail problem with seniority is that it defines your position, and you know it's last in first out.. .If Swiss will downsize in the near future, it's the 300 ex-LX who will lose their jobs (ie me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> ) I cannot accept that an employee of a bust company should get more job protection than me.. .As for the money: It's not the main thing. I have worked as a secretary and as a F/A and in both jobs I have earned more than I do now, and didn't have to spend 120'000 sFr to get there. But now I'm where I want to be, and I will not frown if I continue as I have chosen. But as all of us, I won't say no if I'm offered more.