727 IranAir ldg without Nose Gear. Video and Question?
With you there Old Fella,
I think not deploying the spoilers was an excellent decision, in this case, with good weather and a long dry runway combined with the desire to keep the nose off as long as possible keeping all the lift you had down to the slowest possible speed was simply good judgement.
Great job.
I think not deploying the spoilers was an excellent decision, in this case, with good weather and a long dry runway combined with the desire to keep the nose off as long as possible keeping all the lift you had down to the slowest possible speed was simply good judgement.
Great job.
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On a recent trip to Iran, I elected not to fly Iran Air even though they offered me a ticket in First Class. I chose another carrier and slummed it in the back.
Had I seen this video, I might have chosen Iran Air. The flying skills that this demonstrates are impressive. What saddens me, having enjoyed a visit to the country, is how Western sanctions against the regime, and they are of course justified, are hitting the people by exposing them to the risks of flying in old aircraft which cannot be maintained to normal standards.
Had I seen this video, I might have chosen Iran Air. The flying skills that this demonstrates are impressive. What saddens me, having enjoyed a visit to the country, is how Western sanctions against the regime, and they are of course justified, are hitting the people by exposing them to the risks of flying in old aircraft which cannot be maintained to normal standards.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by stilton
keep the nose off as long as possible keeping all the lift you had down
Reverting to 737 it is interesting to see the QRH says use speedbrakes if landing distance requires - I think a far better approach.
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stilton:
No problem with the DC 8 but if you'd had the privilege to fly the lovely B727
you'd soon understand the affection for it !
No problem with the DC 8 but if you'd had the privilege to fly the lovely B727
you'd soon understand the affection for it !
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Lnding Incident
BOAC. I think Stilton was pointing out that to have deployed the spoilers on touchdown would have reduced lift so dramatically that the horizontal stabilizer/elevator authority would have been insufficient to control the pitch-down to the same extent that it was in this case with the spoilers remaining stowed. I would seem to me that the lift produced in the configuration used could only help delay the point at which the nose came in contact with the runway. Obviously, if the runway was wet and/or limited length, bringing the aircraft to a stop as quickly as possible would be assisted by deployment of the spoilers.
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Point as I have known is that aerodynamic breaking utilizes lift as a strong force with drag as is natural (2 forces) of great dynamic only with the liability of lost of lift resulting in a loss of drag, this is greater than the drag induced by spoilers alone. During a normal landing (3 points down) aircraft braking, reverse thrust and a spoiled airfoil is ideal.
On a tail mounted engine with full nose up deflection it seems to me that a balance of reverse thrust with pitch may be the best option to slow this aircraft.
On a tail mounted engine with full nose up deflection it seems to me that a balance of reverse thrust with pitch may be the best option to slow this aircraft.
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All the pontifications and disections and resections of QRH's etc and all you need to do is look at the vid - disect THAT and type it up as the bible - absolute professionals - well done
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Johnson Bar
No Johnson Bar on the 727,no way to get to the Lwr 41 from "up top" Worked well on the 707 when I had to use it for real once,but a bit harrowing waiting for the Green Light call from "up stairs"!!!
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How good to see the F/E mentioned in the QRH. Most of the younger brigade probably don't know that it means FLIGHT ENGINEER.
at the number of children of the magenta line that don't know what a B727 is.The closest to a Flight Engineer I get nower days on the NG is when I have a Supee on the jump seat. They do the paperwork and communications. Alas the long gone days of the good old B727
.
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I wouldn't worry too much about slamming the nose into the ground when extending speed brakes as they have an initial pitch up moment.
B737 FCTM says:
- Controllability is more difficult with speedbrakes extended.
- In case of evac you might not be able to stow them --> injuries
Isn't there something in the B727 FCTM?
B737 FCTM says:
- Controllability is more difficult with speedbrakes extended.
- In case of evac you might not be able to stow them --> injuries
Isn't there something in the B727 FCTM?
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I have a question regarding normal practice on a nose gear up landing.
Do the pilots pull the yoke back all the way whilst slowing down (obviously not right after touch down) and will the decrease in lift result in a smooth lowering of the nose on the rwy as speed and thus lift decreases? Or are the pilots required to "fly" the nose on the ground?
I am not a pilot myself and apologise for any silly comments.
Do the pilots pull the yoke back all the way whilst slowing down (obviously not right after touch down) and will the decrease in lift result in a smooth lowering of the nose on the rwy as speed and thus lift decreases? Or are the pilots required to "fly" the nose on the ground?
I am not a pilot myself and apologise for any silly comments.
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From the Washington Post:
Iranian hero pilot gets cold shoulder - The Washington Post
Iranian hero pilot gets cold shoulder
By Thomas Erdbrink, Published: October 29
TEHRAN — An Iranian pilot whose spectacular emergency landing was captured on video will not be allowed to fly a plane for two months, the Fars news agency reported Saturday.
The video shows the Iran Air flight slowly approaching Tehran’s Mehrabad Airport on Oct. 18 with its nose landing gear jammed. As rescue workers prepared for the worst, Capt. Hooshang Shahbazi balanced the plane using only the landing gear under the wings until it came to a stop.
The 40-year-old Boeing 727, which was returning from Moscow, had been blacklisted in Europe but not in Russia. A similar plane crashed in February in western Iran during bad weather, killing 77.
Shahbazi complained to news media here that Iranian authorities have not expressed any gratitude for his efforts, which saved the lives of 94 passengers and 19 crew members.
“They did not even call to say thank you,” Shahbazi told the Etemaad newspaper, which is critical of the government, on Saturday. Instead he was told to stay home for two months to recuperate from the incident, the semi-official Fars news agency reported Saturday, adding that there will be an investigation into the cause...
By Thomas Erdbrink, Published: October 29
TEHRAN — An Iranian pilot whose spectacular emergency landing was captured on video will not be allowed to fly a plane for two months, the Fars news agency reported Saturday.
The video shows the Iran Air flight slowly approaching Tehran’s Mehrabad Airport on Oct. 18 with its nose landing gear jammed. As rescue workers prepared for the worst, Capt. Hooshang Shahbazi balanced the plane using only the landing gear under the wings until it came to a stop.
The 40-year-old Boeing 727, which was returning from Moscow, had been blacklisted in Europe but not in Russia. A similar plane crashed in February in western Iran during bad weather, killing 77.
Shahbazi complained to news media here that Iranian authorities have not expressed any gratitude for his efforts, which saved the lives of 94 passengers and 19 crew members.
“They did not even call to say thank you,” Shahbazi told the Etemaad newspaper, which is critical of the government, on Saturday. Instead he was told to stay home for two months to recuperate from the incident, the semi-official Fars news agency reported Saturday, adding that there will be an investigation into the cause...
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The required position is one of the three scenarios listed below that statement. Perhaps Boeing knows that spoiler deployment pitches the nose up slightly allowing a lower nose touchdown speed or perhaps it is just to lower the likelyhood of an overrun or some other reason.
Last edited by punkalouver; 3rd Nov 2011 at 01:28.
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is pprune banned in Iran? Would love to hear the story from the crew, 2 months at home to recover gives them plenty of spare time to write.
My father was F/E on the B727 for 11 years but the aircraft he loved more was the DC-10, B747 were a pain in the a.. but he loved his job, was the only one on the aircraft with a decent table for lunch.
On the other hand DC-8´s are wonderful to fly, had the oportunity to fly them, now I fly a very decent LJ60 rocket with steel wires on the controls so I don´t have to worry about normal laws, alternate laws and all that crap.
Good landing!!!
My father was F/E on the B727 for 11 years but the aircraft he loved more was the DC-10, B747 were a pain in the a.. but he loved his job, was the only one on the aircraft with a decent table for lunch.
On the other hand DC-8´s are wonderful to fly, had the oportunity to fly them, now I fly a very decent LJ60 rocket with steel wires on the controls so I don´t have to worry about normal laws, alternate laws and all that crap.
Good landing!!!
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sandos-
Would this landing have been as smooth with a A320 or a 737?
Would this landing have been as smooth with a A320 or a 737?
I'm not trying to belittle the fine job this Captain did, but almost all landings are done that way. That is with the nose in the air, landing on the mains first and then lowering the nose. In this case you just try and hold the nose off longer to slow down more. This guy did it "textbook" style for sure.
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I beleive that the 727 is the best plane to handle a nose gear up landing. Because of the heavy tail/light nose, with the help of the stab trim you can hold the nose up until about 60kt. That's what I found out for fun on some looong runway landings! There is no way you can do the same on a 737. I would guess another 20 or 30kt would be necessary.