Flying is dangerous??
Guest
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Flying is dangerous??
Hey all,
Just a little thought I had - on the whole do pilots consider their jobs relatively dangerous?? Sure its safer than driving a car but an airliner still fall out of the sky. Obvious recent examples being swissair and concorde....
Ta,
SB22
Just a little thought I had - on the whole do pilots consider their jobs relatively dangerous?? Sure its safer than driving a car but an airliner still fall out of the sky. Obvious recent examples being swissair and concorde....
Ta,
SB22
Guest
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Well, I speak for myself, but I dont think of it as being dangerous, and I dont think many other pilots do either.
If something bad happens then you just do your best to fix it up and land safely, if you cant, well then thats life!
Someone I spoke to said he could never be a pilot because of the responsibilty of all those pax. I dont really think of it that way, I look after number one. I figure that in saving my own life each flight the pax will live too!
If something bad happens then you just do your best to fix it up and land safely, if you cant, well then thats life!
Someone I spoke to said he could never be a pilot because of the responsibilty of all those pax. I dont really think of it that way, I look after number one. I figure that in saving my own life each flight the pax will live too!
Guest
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there was a recent advertising campaign here in OZ telling people to take care at work, as more people die in workplace accidents then do on our roads, and being an aircraft engineer, i would probably be in more danger at work than the flight crews.
Guest
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SB22 - you have to be a bit careful with stats on this one... "Obviously its safer than driving a car"
errrm, no. Not if you take the number of accidents as a ratio of actual journeys. Most of the "safest form of travel" quotes come from looking at accidents per mile, which is a bit unfair as aircraft fly so far on each journey. In accidents per journey, trains are the safest, bikes are the worst. Air travel comes out somewhere between the two, but below cars.
Even a rough look at the stats proves this - 50 million people in the UK, 10 a day killed on the roads, must be about 30-40 million car journeys a day? therefore 1 in 4 million car journeys ends in a fatality. Air travel is not as good as that.
And yes it concerns me, especially as I'll be first at the centre of the scene of the accident
However, it doesnt concern me as much as driving home at night, in the rain and missing people who have not had their skills tested for 40 years by 3 feet whilst travelling at a combined speed of 120 mph . Up there at least our lovely ATCO's keep me a decent distance away from everyone else.
errrm, no. Not if you take the number of accidents as a ratio of actual journeys. Most of the "safest form of travel" quotes come from looking at accidents per mile, which is a bit unfair as aircraft fly so far on each journey. In accidents per journey, trains are the safest, bikes are the worst. Air travel comes out somewhere between the two, but below cars.
Even a rough look at the stats proves this - 50 million people in the UK, 10 a day killed on the roads, must be about 30-40 million car journeys a day? therefore 1 in 4 million car journeys ends in a fatality. Air travel is not as good as that.
And yes it concerns me, especially as I'll be first at the centre of the scene of the accident
However, it doesnt concern me as much as driving home at night, in the rain and missing people who have not had their skills tested for 40 years by 3 feet whilst travelling at a combined speed of 120 mph . Up there at least our lovely ATCO's keep me a decent distance away from everyone else.
Guest
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Aviation in itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
— Original author unknown, dates back to a World War II advisory.
Found this at:
http://s k y g o d.com/quotes/
Any Good?
{Had to edit this to get it to take the reference to the Almighty in the url.}
[This message has been edited by fobotcso (edited 16 January 2001).]
— Original author unknown, dates back to a World War II advisory.
Found this at:
http://s k y g o d.com/quotes/
Any Good?
{Had to edit this to get it to take the reference to the Almighty in the url.}
[This message has been edited by fobotcso (edited 16 January 2001).]
Guest
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If it's not dangerous, why do they set such high standards for the people allowed to participate in it?
Of course it's dangerous, it's through the constant action of highly trained Pilots and Engineers that we keep the accident rate as low as it is. Take our eyes off the ball, and aviation won't take long to remind us.
G
Of course it's dangerous, it's through the constant action of highly trained Pilots and Engineers that we keep the accident rate as low as it is. Take our eyes off the ball, and aviation won't take long to remind us.
G
Guest
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If it were dangerous, birds and bats wouldn't do it.
Read the quote again. And focus on the words "inherently" and "incapacity" (which was exactly your point). High standards are set to ensure that aviators do it right, not to enable them to survive when they do it wrong.
Ask the insurance companies. At the end of my career I had not paid additional premiums for military flying for over 30 years. And that included some "interesting" flying about which I kept my companies informed. This is commonplace in Military Flying.
Statistics tell all, Genghis; you should know about that.
[This message has been edited by fobotcso (edited 16 January 2001).]
Read the quote again. And focus on the words "inherently" and "incapacity" (which was exactly your point). High standards are set to ensure that aviators do it right, not to enable them to survive when they do it wrong.
Ask the insurance companies. At the end of my career I had not paid additional premiums for military flying for over 30 years. And that included some "interesting" flying about which I kept my companies informed. This is commonplace in Military Flying.
Statistics tell all, Genghis; you should know about that.
[This message has been edited by fobotcso (edited 16 January 2001).]
Guest
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Code Blue,
Yes, very "St Exuperian" isn't it. He was the French romantic hero (Author of Le Petit Prince etc) who went missing in 1944 on a recce flight from Corsica.
I have a feeling that it wasn't him, however, and that it is truly anonymous.
The quote was very evident around RAF Operations Rooms and Crew Rooms in the early 50s and it really stuck in my mind. It's too late to change my view now.
But mustn't hi-jack Speedbird's thread. Back to you fellah.
Yes, very "St Exuperian" isn't it. He was the French romantic hero (Author of Le Petit Prince etc) who went missing in 1944 on a recce flight from Corsica.
I have a feeling that it wasn't him, however, and that it is truly anonymous.
The quote was very evident around RAF Operations Rooms and Crew Rooms in the early 50s and it really stuck in my mind. It's too late to change my view now.
But mustn't hi-jack Speedbird's thread. Back to you fellah.
Guest
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Fobotcso, I agree the insurance guys are onto something. Here's the policy for one of the planes I rent:
Hull: $40,000
Liability: $3,000,000
Annual premium: $2300
This is for a plane that's in the air 10-15 hours a day, often with students or low-timers like me as PIC. Compare that to auto policies- in my neck of the woods a new driver would pay almost that much for liability coverage only. However... I must agree that it's far less forgiving. Most air crashes are quite deadly while most car wrecks don't result in injury.
Hull: $40,000
Liability: $3,000,000
Annual premium: $2300
This is for a plane that's in the air 10-15 hours a day, often with students or low-timers like me as PIC. Compare that to auto policies- in my neck of the woods a new driver would pay almost that much for liability coverage only. However... I must agree that it's far less forgiving. Most air crashes are quite deadly while most car wrecks don't result in injury.
Guest
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I only started flying 2 years ago, and before I did so I was a little twitchy about certain aspects of the flight like take-off, turbulence, etc. However, now I've been flying regularly it doesn't even cross my mind that the plane might break! Especially in a light aircraft, the way it works just seems so simple. The only thing that's slightly worrying are the recent horror stories about ATC struggling to cope, but hopefully that'll be improved soon!
Guest
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avanti - I would maybe rephrase 'struggling to cope' as the ATC probs don't really affect actual flying a/c. I would say that rarely a sector can get too busy for very short periods of time, but we have measures to cope with 'overload' by splitting sectors into smaller areas, or having a second controller listening in and monitoring everything. I think 'struggling to cope' is to do with the amounts of a/c wishing to fly during peak times, hence the reason why getting airbourne from LHR and LGW without a slot time these days is such a rare thing. Hopefully the new centre together with the pending airspace changes (in 8 days) and RVSM will permit more a/c to fly through a sector in an hour than at present, therefore reducing delays, so we are coping better.
On the general point of the thred by SB, with all the technical and electrical advances both ATC and a/c have, it is getting much harder to get a 'mid-air' or terrain hit. However - more equipment, more to go wrong! A/c with good servicing shouldn't crash, unless the jockey up front 'makes a boob', or likewise ATC pass dud info.
On the general point of the thred by SB, with all the technical and electrical advances both ATC and a/c have, it is getting much harder to get a 'mid-air' or terrain hit. However - more equipment, more to go wrong! A/c with good servicing shouldn't crash, unless the jockey up front 'makes a boob', or likewise ATC pass dud info.
Guest
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Flying correctly in a serviceable aircraft is not dangerous, BUT you can make it so through stupidity and pushing either the aircrafts or your own envelope to areas beyond its or your capability.
If you want real danger try DIY, in UK last year 195,000 people injured and 75 killed doing home improvements, tell your wife that when she wants the house decorating!
If you want real danger try DIY, in UK last year 195,000 people injured and 75 killed doing home improvements, tell your wife that when she wants the house decorating!
Guest
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This is what's dangerous!
RULES OF THE AIR
1. Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory.
2. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the
stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick
all the way back, then they get bigger again.
3. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.
4. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than up
there wishing you were down here.
5. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
6. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep
the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the pilot start
sweating.
7. When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No one has ever collided
with the sky.
8. A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again.
9. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make
all of them yourself.
10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes full power to
taxi to the ramp.
11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle
of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small probability of survival and
vice versa.
12. Never let an aircraft take you somewhere your brain didn't get to
five minutes earlier.
13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps talking about
might be another airplane going in the opposite direction. Reliable
sources also report that mountains have been known to hide out in
clouds.
14. Always try to keep the number of landings you make equal to the
number of take offs you've made.
15. There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing.
Unfortunately no one knows what they are.
16. You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience.
The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of
luck.
17. Helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly the earth repels them.
18. If all you can see out of the window is ground that's going round
and round and all you can hear is commotion coming from the passenger
compartment, things are not at all as they should be.
19. In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum going
hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the
ground has yet to lose.
20. Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience
usually comes from bad judgment.
21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going forward as much
as possible.
22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've missed.
23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law. And it's
not subject to repeal.
24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the altitude above you,
runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.
RULES OF THE AIR
1. Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory.
2. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the
stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick
all the way back, then they get bigger again.
3. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.
4. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than up
there wishing you were down here.
5. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
6. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep
the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the pilot start
sweating.
7. When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No one has ever collided
with the sky.
8. A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again.
9. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make
all of them yourself.
10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes full power to
taxi to the ramp.
11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle
of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small probability of survival and
vice versa.
12. Never let an aircraft take you somewhere your brain didn't get to
five minutes earlier.
13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps talking about
might be another airplane going in the opposite direction. Reliable
sources also report that mountains have been known to hide out in
clouds.
14. Always try to keep the number of landings you make equal to the
number of take offs you've made.
15. There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing.
Unfortunately no one knows what they are.
16. You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience.
The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of
luck.
17. Helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly the earth repels them.
18. If all you can see out of the window is ground that's going round
and round and all you can hear is commotion coming from the passenger
compartment, things are not at all as they should be.
19. In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum going
hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the
ground has yet to lose.
20. Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience
usually comes from bad judgment.
21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going forward as much
as possible.
22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've missed.
23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law. And it's
not subject to repeal.
24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the altitude above you,
runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.
Guest
Posts: n/a
RULES OF THE AIR
1. Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory.
2. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the
stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick
all the way back, then they get bigger again.
3. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.
4. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than up
there wishing you were down here.
5. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
6. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep
the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the pilot start
sweating.
7. When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No one has ever collided
with the sky.
8. A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again.
9. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make
all of them yourself.
10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes full power to
taxi to the ramp.
11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle
of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small probability of survival and
vice versa.
12. Never let an aircraft take you somewhere your brain didn't get to
five minutes earlier.
13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps talking about
might be another airplane going in the opposite direction. Reliable
sources also report that mountains have been known to hide out in
clouds.
14. Always try to keep the number of landings you make equal to the
number of take offs you've made.
15. There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing.
Unfortunately no one knows what they are.
16. You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience.
The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of
luck.
17. Helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly the earth repels them.
18. If all you can see out of the window is ground that's going round
and round and all you can hear is commotion coming from the passenger
compartment, things are not at all as they should be.
19. In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum going
hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the
ground has yet to lose.
20. Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience
usually comes from bad judgment.
21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going forward as much
as possible.
22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've missed.
23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law. And it's
not subject to repeal.
24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the altitude above you,
runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.
1. Every takeoff is optional. Every landing is mandatory.
2. If you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the
stick back, they get smaller. That is, unless you keep pulling the stick
all the way back, then they get bigger again.
3. Flying isn't dangerous. Crashing is what's dangerous.
4. It's always better to be down here wishing you were up there than up
there wishing you were down here.
5. The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
6. The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep
the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the pilot start
sweating.
7. When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No one has ever collided
with the sky.
8. A 'good' landing is one from which you can walk away. A 'great'
landing is one after which they can use the plane again.
9. Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make
all of them yourself.
10. You know you've landed with the wheels up if it takes full power to
taxi to the ramp.
11. The probability of survival is inversely proportional to the angle
of arrival. Large angle of arrival, small probability of survival and
vice versa.
12. Never let an aircraft take you somewhere your brain didn't get to
five minutes earlier.
13. Stay out of clouds. The silver lining everyone keeps talking about
might be another airplane going in the opposite direction. Reliable
sources also report that mountains have been known to hide out in
clouds.
14. Always try to keep the number of landings you make equal to the
number of take offs you've made.
15. There are three simple rules for making a smooth landing.
Unfortunately no one knows what they are.
16. You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience.
The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of
luck.
17. Helicopters can't fly; they're just so ugly the earth repels them.
18. If all you can see out of the window is ground that's going round
and round and all you can hear is commotion coming from the passenger
compartment, things are not at all as they should be.
19. In the ongoing battle between objects made of aluminum going
hundreds of miles per hour and the ground going zero miles per hour, the
ground has yet to lose.
20. Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience
usually comes from bad judgment.
21. It's always a good idea to keep the pointy end going forward as much
as possible.
22. Keep looking around. There's always something you've missed.
23. Remember, gravity is not just a good idea. It's the law. And it's
not subject to repeal.
24. The three most useless things to a pilot are the altitude above you,
runway behind you, and a tenth of a second ago.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well,as the man on the "Brains Trust" (that dates me!) used to say, it all depends on what you mean by dangerous.
Yes, flying is risky. If you are going to pack scores of fragile people into narrow tubes and shoot them through the air at 600 mph supported on wings full of inflammable explosive, then perhaps you should not be surprised if, very occasionally, things go wrong.
I have never felt as a pilot that I am in constant danger although there has been the odd time when I have been frightened in the air but not nearer as often as I have been whilst driving to and from work!!
However, although flying on an individual flight is relatively "safe" a pilot over a flying career spanning 40 years or more has a higher probability of becoming a statistic purely because of increased exposure time to risk!
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Yes, flying is risky. If you are going to pack scores of fragile people into narrow tubes and shoot them through the air at 600 mph supported on wings full of inflammable explosive, then perhaps you should not be surprised if, very occasionally, things go wrong.
I have never felt as a pilot that I am in constant danger although there has been the odd time when I have been frightened in the air but not nearer as often as I have been whilst driving to and from work!!
However, although flying on an individual flight is relatively "safe" a pilot over a flying career spanning 40 years or more has a higher probability of becoming a statistic purely because of increased exposure time to risk!
------------------