Do pilots understand what the LSA is?

[cleared2land 27left]

The LSA or Localiser Sensetive Area, Do you guys in the tube know what we mean when during foggy weather (ie wednesday) we say vacate right and taxi clear of the LSA. Some seemed to call just clear of the runway.

However the LSA will extend beyond the edges of the runway and the colour coded turn off lights only tell you when the nose is clear and not the economy section.

BTW the LSA at LHR extends 137m either side of the runway centreline, so you have to really be on the outer taxiway to be well clear. Does this info appear in any of your books?

Landing clearance ideally is given by 2dme in LVPs, but can be given by 1nm, if not the a/c is sent around. (Sorry to those who went around)

[ManaAdaSystem]

-Report "RWY vacated" first when passed the end of green/yellow colour coded TWY CLL.
-RWY 27L: Report when clear of "LLZ sensitive areas" (LSA), LSA is defined by alternating green/yellow CLL-coding.

All under LVP info.

[cleared2land 27left]

So i take it as yes that the info is available to pilots.

I was just making a general enquiry.

[Sick Squid]

CTL27L

Hammered home to us every AWOPS sim session; you ain't vacated till you are past the green/yellow lights.

That makes it almost pilot proof. Almost...



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Disappears in a cloud of black ink...

[olivasnooze]

Actually never heard of it before. Makes sense, and are always aware that these areas exist, never heard of the terminology.

[Tex Murphy]

I am familiar with low visibility procedures, sensitive areas etc, certified to CAT IIIb not familiar with that RT phrase ( LSA).

[cleared2land 27left]

I think im meant to say "localiser sensetive area" but you rarely say it so therefore easily get tongue tied so LSA is used, however i only say LSA to british pilots. All foreigners get the localiser sensetive area.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Never heard of it. Never been asked to report clear of one, absolutely no idea at all. (ATPL 3000hrs.)

If this is important ,and I assume it is, we are all very badly informed, I will find out now so thanks for the heads-up.

[Buzzoff]

For what it's worth, I always teach when doing LVPs in the sim that the whole of the A/C must be clear of the lights, as you point out. Some places (LGW, if I remember correctly?) only require a pilot report if ASMI is u/s.

First time I've ever heard of the expression 'LSA' as just initials.

[cleared2land 27left]

There was a Aerad book for LHR kicking around at work yesterday, took a look at it and there was no mention of Low Vis Proc at all. Where else would you guys get such info from?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I just spent an hour looking through the AIP (CD-ROM version is a pig as far as I'm concerned) and only reference I could find was a brief mention on page AD2-EGLL-1-4..

[aces low]

I am currently studying JAR ATPL correspondence course and there are about two pages on sensitive areas for ILS/MLS. Also mention of taxiway lighting in sensitive area. Maybe JAR syllabus is not totally bad after all.

Did I really just write that? Must be studying too hard

[Dan Winterland]

I was made to beleive you aren't vacated until the whole of the aircraft is pat the yellow holding markings or the lights, and the position of these takes into account the LSA.

[pilot999]

In Jeppesens the info is normally on the back of the taxi chart for the particular airfield. The AIP calls it the ILS sensitive area AD 1.1.1 para 13.4 or look at this link (adobe acrobat required): http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/ad/30101.pdf

[ratbag]

Simple answer; not until I read this.

You would have been wasting your time asking me, until today.

[Chatterbox]

C2L27L,
Worry when your GMR or SMR or whatever they want to call it this week isn't working. If it's not, the only way you can be sure is when the pilot reports facing East, West etc on the taxiway. But even then would you trust them when so many report 'vacated' as soon as their nose wheel has left the runway centreline?
I guess that as long as you know when they have vacated the runway or LSA it doesn't really matter if they know as well. Let's face it they are only pilots afterall. (Sorry guys and gals [no really I am {he said smiling}])

Chatters

[zippyz]

Don't want to appear cynical.. but have you tried asking copilots (and even some captains) how you go about a circling approach?.. restrictions, limitations etc..?
I am afraid that in terms of general knowledgebilty (pardon my lousy spelling) the standards are lower than what they used to be.. IMVHO of course.

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Bradley Marsh
[email protected]
Cheer up old mate, things could be worse..
So he did..
And they were

[ZAGY]

C2L...
how do U know a Britt pilot in the fog?
and do the naturalised ones qualify?
what does a Britt flying a non UK reg plane get?

[aztruck]

never mentioned in the UK IR or maybe I forgot. However the FAA put great emphasis on the hold short lines for the "ILS sensitive area". I'm not certified for anything other than CAT 1 landings, but under Part 91 a Zero/Zero take off is permitted, and as a result its important that Pilot's be familiar with Hold short lines in Low vis Procedures. I would imagine that the exit line is in the same place as the entry ilne.

[TRIMTRABB]

Never been mentioned in my grand 162 hours. Read this thread on PPrune, went for my night check 2 hours later and got asked...spooky. Pprune, you can't beat it.....

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Whoaaaa!!! It's dark and we've only got one engine!
Shutup! You're making me paranoid!