SIDs, STARs, and regional airports...
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SIDs, STARs, and regional airports...
Hi folks,
Would appreciate it if someone could clear up a few points for me here.
I was looking at the AIP on the internet just now and having a look at SIDs and STARs out of interest and thought about regional airport operations. For example, what happens when a STAR isn't present at an airport (eg Exeter)? Is it simply vectors for the ILS?
And as for departures, does an aircraft recieve a direct routing to a point along the first airway of the route (eg SAM for an Exeter departure) when there is no SID?
Also, (sorry!), BE have a route from here (Exeter) to Birmingham but with the lack of waypoints en route, what do they stick down on the flightplan? I cannot think of any BHX STARs that originate in the south-west either, so what happens arrival/departure wise in this case?
If I have confused you along the way, apologies!
Cheers!
DVR6K
Would appreciate it if someone could clear up a few points for me here.
I was looking at the AIP on the internet just now and having a look at SIDs and STARs out of interest and thought about regional airport operations. For example, what happens when a STAR isn't present at an airport (eg Exeter)? Is it simply vectors for the ILS?
And as for departures, does an aircraft recieve a direct routing to a point along the first airway of the route (eg SAM for an Exeter departure) when there is no SID?
Also, (sorry!), BE have a route from here (Exeter) to Birmingham but with the lack of waypoints en route, what do they stick down on the flightplan? I cannot think of any BHX STARs that originate in the south-west either, so what happens arrival/departure wise in this case?
If I have confused you along the way, apologies!
Cheers!
DVR6K
Join Date: Feb 2000
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With no published SID, you're usually given a clearance such as 'left turn direct track to XXX'.
With no STAR it's self position to a suitable point on the approach, if it's strait in; or vectors around the corner if you're coming from the other direction (or precedural approach if it's a bad day).
In effect it's not really any different from doing a PPL x-country!!
With no STAR it's self position to a suitable point on the approach, if it's strait in; or vectors around the corner if you're coming from the other direction (or precedural approach if it's a bad day).
In effect it's not really any different from doing a PPL x-country!!
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I think there may be a little more to it than that.
It depends a bit on the other traffic around and the airspace and facilities at the airport. I'm assuming a fairly standard regional airport here.
First, I don't think there will be any published SID or STAR if the airport's airspace is not connected (by more controlled airspace) to the airways system.
If the airport has a surveillance radar you'll get vectors around other known and unknown traffic and be sequenced with other inbound aircraft. If there's no other traffic and it's not pretty much straight in to final approach you'll usually be vectored the quickest way to a short base leg and then turned to inercept the localiser. The range will depend on the level to which the controller can clear you to descent to but won't be less than about a five mile final.
If you ask to self position to the ILS and there are no reasons why you shouldn't you'll probably be cleared to do it - but it's at the controllers discretion. In this case the controller will want to know where your centrefix or wahatever is and should still allocate minimum levels to you and watch you on radar.
If there's no radar you'll get cleared to the approach aid and then to fly a procedural approach. Obviously you'll be separated from other IFR traffic but you might be in the open FIR so keep an especially good lookout. And remember that not everything squawks so don't rely on TCAS.
All this can be complicated by other airports or airspace restrictions and noise/environmental preferred routes etc.
Departures will be treated in much the same way - straight line if it's possible.
Don't know too much about TE to BB but there are probably two options. 1 - join airways and take the long way round to BHD and turn right onto Amber 25 I think it is. I don't think you'd want to go east from BE because you'll get caught up with the London TMA though if you made it up through Daventry the inbound route to BB would probably be more standard. 2 - head north from TE in a straight line to BB and get a crossing clearance through Green 1 in the Bristol area. When you get closer to BB give them a call and ask for a joining clearance. FPL route goes something like EGTE DCT EGBB. BB probably wouldn't bother with STARs etc but vector you as described above.
Hope that helps. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
It depends a bit on the other traffic around and the airspace and facilities at the airport. I'm assuming a fairly standard regional airport here.
First, I don't think there will be any published SID or STAR if the airport's airspace is not connected (by more controlled airspace) to the airways system.
If the airport has a surveillance radar you'll get vectors around other known and unknown traffic and be sequenced with other inbound aircraft. If there's no other traffic and it's not pretty much straight in to final approach you'll usually be vectored the quickest way to a short base leg and then turned to inercept the localiser. The range will depend on the level to which the controller can clear you to descent to but won't be less than about a five mile final.
If you ask to self position to the ILS and there are no reasons why you shouldn't you'll probably be cleared to do it - but it's at the controllers discretion. In this case the controller will want to know where your centrefix or wahatever is and should still allocate minimum levels to you and watch you on radar.
If there's no radar you'll get cleared to the approach aid and then to fly a procedural approach. Obviously you'll be separated from other IFR traffic but you might be in the open FIR so keep an especially good lookout. And remember that not everything squawks so don't rely on TCAS.
All this can be complicated by other airports or airspace restrictions and noise/environmental preferred routes etc.
Departures will be treated in much the same way - straight line if it's possible.
Don't know too much about TE to BB but there are probably two options. 1 - join airways and take the long way round to BHD and turn right onto Amber 25 I think it is. I don't think you'd want to go east from BE because you'll get caught up with the London TMA though if you made it up through Daventry the inbound route to BB would probably be more standard. 2 - head north from TE in a straight line to BB and get a crossing clearance through Green 1 in the Bristol area. When you get closer to BB give them a call and ask for a joining clearance. FPL route goes something like EGTE DCT EGBB. BB probably wouldn't bother with STARs etc but vector you as described above.
Hope that helps. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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You don't have to file a SID or STAR in your flight plan. It just simplifies your clearance. If you don't file for say a SID, and ATC want you to use the "SID" then your clearance will contain all of the SID content anyway, in long form (pain in the arse).
If a STAR is not present or I don't want to use one, my flight plan would be filed up until the inital approach fix as depicted on the approach plate.
In the USA you have the added advantage of using IFR certified GPS, in one instance I filed a 200nm IFR flight direct GPS...and they gave it to me !
Cheers. .EA
If a STAR is not present or I don't want to use one, my flight plan would be filed up until the inital approach fix as depicted on the approach plate.
In the USA you have the added advantage of using IFR certified GPS, in one instance I filed a 200nm IFR flight direct GPS...and they gave it to me !
Cheers. .EA
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englishal
You're quite right that you don't have to file SIDs or STARs - unless the AIP says you have to - but certainly around Europe I think you'll find that SIDs/STARs are only published at the sort of busy airports where ATC will require you to stick to the published routes. More and more this is for noise and environmental reasons and ATC don't have the option to permit deviations. In practice it's probably easiest to file the Standard route and ask for an early turn or whatever if it sounds quiet.
As for DCT routes - in ATC we're generally not bothered how a pilot navigates his/her aircraft. If the pilots says 'I can go direct to X', and there's nothing in the way, the controller will usually clrear it direct. It's really nothing to do with having GPS or not - if there's nothing I've got to separate from the aircraft I wouldn't care if the pilot did most of the route by DR!
You're quite right that you don't have to file SIDs or STARs - unless the AIP says you have to - but certainly around Europe I think you'll find that SIDs/STARs are only published at the sort of busy airports where ATC will require you to stick to the published routes. More and more this is for noise and environmental reasons and ATC don't have the option to permit deviations. In practice it's probably easiest to file the Standard route and ask for an early turn or whatever if it sounds quiet.
As for DCT routes - in ATC we're generally not bothered how a pilot navigates his/her aircraft. If the pilots says 'I can go direct to X', and there's nothing in the way, the controller will usually clrear it direct. It's really nothing to do with having GPS or not - if there's nothing I've got to separate from the aircraft I wouldn't care if the pilot did most of the route by DR!
