Jump Seat Dilemma
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Jump Seat Dilemma
I'm flying out on holiday today (hurrah!) and as a wannabe really want to have a nose round the cockpit during flight asking dumb questions. However, since 11/9 and now with bomb shoe boy, will I be told to sit down and not be such a security risk? What if I brought my licence along with me? would that convince any nervous hostie that I'm not a paid up member of al-qadea, the ira, salvation army or any such dodgy organisation.
And will it matter who I'm flying with? If anyone's interested it's Crossair.
Yours
Confused of London.
And will it matter who I'm flying with? If anyone's interested it's Crossair.
Yours
Confused of London.
May I point out that some members of al-qadea also had licences (PPL)! Guys with thirty years in ATC who have been directly responsible for trillions of lives during their career can't even get a jumpseat these days. It's bloody ridiculous <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> Security my a r s e!!!
[ 28 December 2001: Message edited by: Avman ]</p>
[ 28 December 2001: Message edited by: Avman ]</p>
Dog Tired
agree with all the above. me pi..ed off can not allow mates into the f deck any more rules are:
must be Co personnel or family of same or spec auth and always must have dfo/cp permission.
so, no more crumpet then.........
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
must be Co personnel or family of same or spec auth and always must have dfo/cp permission.
so, no more crumpet then.........
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Current rules for us: FAA Part 121 Air Carriers Only; Pilots/Flight Engineers/Aircraft Dispatchers with FAA Airman Certificate, current Company I.D., valid Passport, with approval from our Flight Control Office. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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Well, I've got a friend who knows all about me and flies around on A320s and has taken me flying many times before now on the jump seat. I have an english PPL, I am at university, and have AOPA membership and shiny new ID card.
Will I ever get a go in a jump seat again?? Even with my friend??
Will I ever get a go in a jump seat again?? Even with my friend??
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The idea is to minimize door operation. only flt attendants and pilots in and out should open that door. Even with air marshalls on board, does the crew know when there´s one on board, to allow visits to the cockpit ? I think pilots have more important things to do than allowing visitors in.
We all love to go up front and talk to them see where we are and all that, but we all must understand it´s not going to be possible for a looooooooooooong time now. I personally agree with it.
We all love to go up front and talk to them see where we are and all that, but we all must understand it´s not going to be possible for a looooooooooooong time now. I personally agree with it.
Well, with no controllers in the cockpit anymore there will be less opportunity for mutual understanding of pilot/ATC matters and, with the new generation of controllers coming on line, you will notice the difference six months to a year from now. These are sad days in general but very sad in particular for aviation professionals.
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You think you have it bad! I doubt I'd even be able to ask for one without being pinned to the ground! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
[ 29 December 2001: Message edited by: Superpilot ]</p>
[ 29 December 2001: Message edited by: Superpilot ]</p>
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I've jumpseated many times before, especially into BEY on A320's with B-Med who are a great bunch of chaps and (pre-9/11) were always willing to accomodate a fascinated PPLer such as me.
But just as we were on final it dawned on me that it wouldn't take much for me to lean forward and extend the spoilers, pull in the flaps, pull the fuel switches on the throttles etc.
You can do a lot of damage from the j/s. If it means us aviationistas have to sit in the back to keep us all safe then so be it. Until all f/d visitors can be properly vetted then I'm happy to keep out.
RU
[ 29 December 2001: Message edited by: reverserunlocked ]</p>
But just as we were on final it dawned on me that it wouldn't take much for me to lean forward and extend the spoilers, pull in the flaps, pull the fuel switches on the throttles etc.
You can do a lot of damage from the j/s. If it means us aviationistas have to sit in the back to keep us all safe then so be it. Until all f/d visitors can be properly vetted then I'm happy to keep out.
RU
[ 29 December 2001: Message edited by: reverserunlocked ]</p>
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Just a quick note on this one, I'm going on charter flight very soon (Monarch boys again!)and have always welcomed the chat & swapping of ideas up front...then theres always the jokes!!! I believe it will be a waste of time me even asking for a trip to the sharpe end this time round. In the past my conversations have been greatly appreciated both by myself & others, great to see the other side of the coin so too speak. If there is a way round this one please let me on on it, security for us has gone up a bit for us as well, should go some way I would have thought.
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I have just got back from malaga, I had all my paper work and was also in uniform however the pilots really do have their hands tied with this...
However write a little note saying something like...
I am a PPL with ....hrs I am aspiring to be a commercial pilot one day like you (soften em up a bit) I would be really grateful if you could let me have the jump seat, I relise things are tight lately with sept 11th and I understand if you cannot let me come up.
you really have to empithise with the position you put them in, most of them feel really bad/**** then they cant let you come up.
hope this helps this is what I did and although it didn't get me the jump seat until about 10mins before landing it did get me....
1 practily unlimited free drinks (i think they wanted me pished)
2. free headphones for the entertainment
3. more food
4. cakes
and it was only a 2hr flight..
hope this might help..
Beckxy
However write a little note saying something like...
I am a PPL with ....hrs I am aspiring to be a commercial pilot one day like you (soften em up a bit) I would be really grateful if you could let me have the jump seat, I relise things are tight lately with sept 11th and I understand if you cannot let me come up.
you really have to empithise with the position you put them in, most of them feel really bad/**** then they cant let you come up.
hope this helps this is what I did and although it didn't get me the jump seat until about 10mins before landing it did get me....
1 practily unlimited free drinks (i think they wanted me pished)
2. free headphones for the entertainment
3. more food
4. cakes
and it was only a 2hr flight..
hope this might help..
Beckxy
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well done Becky, 10 mins upfront is the most you could expect these days, although I'm a ppl my main reason to chat up front is to swap ideas as i'm in ATC. Once again well done & hope you enjoyed the freebies!!!!!
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Hi QSY1215
I am afraid it simply is not allowed !
There are various reciprocal arrangements for ATC familiarization as you are probably aware, but the crew cannot bypass these arrangements. These rules are now Department of Transport directives and have been incorporated into the company regulations.
I am afraid no on board notes or letters will circumvent these rules, a situation that is likely to prevail for the forseeeable future.
I am afraid it simply is not allowed !
There are various reciprocal arrangements for ATC familiarization as you are probably aware, but the crew cannot bypass these arrangements. These rules are now Department of Transport directives and have been incorporated into the company regulations.
I am afraid no on board notes or letters will circumvent these rules, a situation that is likely to prevail for the forseeeable future.
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I've jumpseated with FR on a number of occasions in the past, I had a chat with a couple of their pilots recently who explained that in light of sept. 11 they weren't allowing any in-flight visits for the time being. The main reason is that some pax. are freaked out enough without seeing someone who's obviously not a crew member entering the flight deck.
It's a pity, but that's just the way of the world these days...
It's a pity, but that's just the way of the world these days...
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Flew on Concorde from LHR to JFK for the first time last Sunday. With my tickets was a leaflet from BA explaining the new security procedures and stating quite clearly that flight deck visits were no longer allowed. During my flight I noticed that the flight deck door was open for a long period. I asked the Purser if I could go up to the Galley and take a photgraph through the open door. I was told in no uncertain terms that the door was only open for ventilation and there was no way I could go up there. I explained again that I didn't expect to enter the cokpit and only wanted to take a photo from the top of the aisle but got no joy.
On my return from JFK last night on a 747-400 I was upstairs at the bulkhead. The cockpit door was reinforced with steel. It was kept locked the entire flight and the cabin crew had to wait until it was opened by the flightdeck crew before they could get in. Once the cabin crew entered it stayed open for most of the time they were there. If I had really wanted access for malicious purposes it would have been quite easy.
On my return from JFK last night on a 747-400 I was upstairs at the bulkhead. The cockpit door was reinforced with steel. It was kept locked the entire flight and the cabin crew had to wait until it was opened by the flightdeck crew before they could get in. Once the cabin crew entered it stayed open for most of the time they were there. If I had really wanted access for malicious purposes it would have been quite easy.
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OK, but how do you want to do it, then? It's important to know for the cockpitcrew what is going on in the cabin! Keeping a door closed hinders communication for sure, but does it also provide more safety?
Some cockpitdoors have a kick-out panel, so even a locked door is no hindrance...
I feel very cut off from crew and passengers. I love the visits and the questions. Hope it will be different soon.
Some cockpitdoors have a kick-out panel, so even a locked door is no hindrance...
I feel very cut off from crew and passengers. I love the visits and the questions. Hope it will be different soon.
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Aviatrix69
My point was that all this supposed increased security is just window dressing. I was able to book myself seat 60C in advance with BA. If I had been someone with ulterior motives I could have booked this seat and stormed the cockpit when the crew opened the door. Beyond the double door type of security employed by El Al, the investment made by airlines in strenghtened doors is unlikely to prevent a determined attacker and is intended to give a view to pax of being "seen to do something."
The words "horse", "stabledoor" and "bolted" come to mind.
My point was that all this supposed increased security is just window dressing. I was able to book myself seat 60C in advance with BA. If I had been someone with ulterior motives I could have booked this seat and stormed the cockpit when the crew opened the door. Beyond the double door type of security employed by El Al, the investment made by airlines in strenghtened doors is unlikely to prevent a determined attacker and is intended to give a view to pax of being "seen to do something."
The words "horse", "stabledoor" and "bolted" come to mind.
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I was very recently allowed to visit the flight deck on an internal flight . I wont say which airline, who the pilots were, where we were going, or even when it was - just in case I get someone in trouble.
I am a UK en route ATCO and wasn't really expecting them to say yes, but thought I'd chance my arm any way.
Didn't get up for take off/landing, but for all the rest in between.
Had a great chat with the lads up front and learned quite a bit - nice demonstration of an expedited descent which gave me sore ears for a couple of hours <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I even managed to answer some questions they had about ATC!
Any way - I don'th think the pilots concerned read PPRUNE, but just in case you are out there - thanks again
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Goldfish Watcher ]</p>
I am a UK en route ATCO and wasn't really expecting them to say yes, but thought I'd chance my arm any way.
Didn't get up for take off/landing, but for all the rest in between.
Had a great chat with the lads up front and learned quite a bit - nice demonstration of an expedited descent which gave me sore ears for a couple of hours <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I even managed to answer some questions they had about ATC!
Any way - I don'th think the pilots concerned read PPRUNE, but just in case you are out there - thanks again
[ 07 January 2002: Message edited by: Goldfish Watcher ]</p>
