conversion of military flying hours to civi
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conversion of military flying hours to civi
Could anybody please help? Apparently C.A.A have a way to convert military flying hours into civillian. Anybody got a web address or any know how on this? Thanks 
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SP, by all means go with the CAA's method if it suits, but don't feel required to stick to it if it doesn't. I have a feeling they use a 10 -15% increment on flight time (as logged in the mil).
I simply added 10 mins taxi time before each flight and 5 mins after it which was actually a realistic figure, and as most of my sorties were an hour or so this gave a very useful 25% increment. However it was clearly reasonable and I got no argument.
I suggest you pick the most advantageous between the CAA's plan, a reasonable guesstimate such as mine above or reality if different, might be 30 mins/15 mins if you were flying Nimrods or VC10s.
My experience was that the CAA are quite happy to accept your figures as long as they are reasonable and you can justify them.
Just be imaginatively honest!
I simply added 10 mins taxi time before each flight and 5 mins after it which was actually a realistic figure, and as most of my sorties were an hour or so this gave a very useful 25% increment. However it was clearly reasonable and I got no argument.
I suggest you pick the most advantageous between the CAA's plan, a reasonable guesstimate such as mine above or reality if different, might be 30 mins/15 mins if you were flying Nimrods or VC10s.
My experience was that the CAA are quite happy to accept your figures as long as they are reasonable and you can justify them.
Just be imaginatively honest!
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The allowances per sortie are as follows:
Fixed wing training aircraft 10 mins
Fast jets 10 mins
Multi-engined transport aircraft 15 mins
Display flying 5 mins
Wheeled Helicopter - Airfield ops 5 mins
- Field ops none
Skidded helicopters none
Aircraft Carrier ops none
When I left there was a form which had to be signed by the Sqn boss.
Fixed wing training aircraft 10 mins
Fast jets 10 mins
Multi-engined transport aircraft 15 mins
Display flying 5 mins
Wheeled Helicopter - Airfield ops 5 mins
- Field ops none
Skidded helicopters none
Aircraft Carrier ops none
When I left there was a form which had to be signed by the Sqn boss.
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DC, interesting, whose figures are these? Are they actually fron the CAA or via MOD?
I fing it hard to see how "they"can impose rigid figures like that - then again, are these actually being imposed or are they in fact guidelines?
My feeling is that no one can reasonably deny you the hours you actually did, as long as you can make a reasonable case for justifying them. For instance if you were instructing on the transport fleet I daresay 30 mins might be a perfectly reasonable time between taxi and take off. (that is certainly the case for civil IR training in a mere Seneca, as everyone who has spent half an hour doing all the checks at £300 per hr know full well...)If this is so then you must be entitled to claim it regardless of guidelines.
F/W training 10 mins??? Oh come on! Taxiing a Bulldog at a fast walking pace for 1 1/2 miles, waiting behind 3 other 'dogs all doing protracted new-stude cheks, could easily be 25 mins on occasion, taxi back seldom less than five more. Hey, you can prove that easily enough! The interesting thing is that as a civvy I no longer had a CO to sign my application, my military hours could only be accepted (or not) on my say-so. It seems utterly unreasonable to impose different standards on serving military people against those recently ex-mil, do you follow me?
Suggest play their game as far as it suits you but fight your corner if it does not. In my experience the FCL4 or whatever they call themselves this week are very helpful indeed and quite willing to consider individual cases if they are, once again that magical word, reasonable.
Go for it, be nice to FCL and you should be OK. If anyone quibbles, think over some of the ammunition I've illustrated above. No doubt others will come up with more.
Above all you military guys, don't be browbeaten by MOD raised "policy" on this if it does not comply with standards applied to civvies, you are still a citizen of the UK and have all the same rights as the rest of us. Remembe the standards are set by the CAA, not your CO or some memo set out by MOD. If in doubt talk to the CAA yourself. Sometimes you may need to kick up a bit to achieve them, but do find out what those civvy standards are if theres any doubt - PPRuNe can help there
Good luck, and end of drone...
[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: Agaricus bisporus ]
I fing it hard to see how "they"can impose rigid figures like that - then again, are these actually being imposed or are they in fact guidelines?
My feeling is that no one can reasonably deny you the hours you actually did, as long as you can make a reasonable case for justifying them. For instance if you were instructing on the transport fleet I daresay 30 mins might be a perfectly reasonable time between taxi and take off. (that is certainly the case for civil IR training in a mere Seneca, as everyone who has spent half an hour doing all the checks at £300 per hr know full well...)If this is so then you must be entitled to claim it regardless of guidelines.
F/W training 10 mins??? Oh come on! Taxiing a Bulldog at a fast walking pace for 1 1/2 miles, waiting behind 3 other 'dogs all doing protracted new-stude cheks, could easily be 25 mins on occasion, taxi back seldom less than five more. Hey, you can prove that easily enough! The interesting thing is that as a civvy I no longer had a CO to sign my application, my military hours could only be accepted (or not) on my say-so. It seems utterly unreasonable to impose different standards on serving military people against those recently ex-mil, do you follow me?
Suggest play their game as far as it suits you but fight your corner if it does not. In my experience the FCL4 or whatever they call themselves this week are very helpful indeed and quite willing to consider individual cases if they are, once again that magical word, reasonable.
Go for it, be nice to FCL and you should be OK. If anyone quibbles, think over some of the ammunition I've illustrated above. No doubt others will come up with more.
Above all you military guys, don't be browbeaten by MOD raised "policy" on this if it does not comply with standards applied to civvies, you are still a citizen of the UK and have all the same rights as the rest of us. Remembe the standards are set by the CAA, not your CO or some memo set out by MOD. If in doubt talk to the CAA yourself. Sometimes you may need to kick up a bit to achieve them, but do find out what those civvy standards are if theres any doubt - PPRuNe can help there
Good luck, and end of drone...
[ 09 November 2001: Message edited by: Agaricus bisporus ]
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I never added anything to my mil. hours - makes me a cabbage, dunnit? However, I do have a sector legally and correctly recorded in my log book last week showing 1hr 40m for LHR-MAN (flight time: 26 minutes !!)
Bonkers, innit?
You Haven't Seen Me, Right?
Bonkers, innit?
You Haven't Seen Me, Right?
Dog Tired
just trust to luck. if you anything like me, you will hope your interviewer is ex-mil in which case everything spent either upside-down or soopersonic counts treble.I counted that basis when I was interviewing.
also fling-wings. done proper course and taken the flak.good luck.
also fling-wings. done proper course and taken the flak.good luck.
Lot of duff gen here.
The CAA (when issuing JAA licences) do not formally recognise taxying time for the crediting of hours towards an ATPL. However, on request they may allow some taxying time up to a maximum of 75 hours if your hours for the issue of a an ATPL are tight.
In 1996, the RAF contacted several airlines asking whether they would accept a notional taxying time per sortie to prevent military pilots being disadvantaged by the RAF practice of logging takeoff to landing.
The agreed times were as follows.
FW Training aircraft: 10 mins
Fast Jets: 10 mins
ME transport aircraft: 15 mins
Dispaly flying: 5 mins
Wheeled helo airfield ops: 5 mins
Wheeled helo field ops: nil
Non wheeled helos: nil
Carrier ops: nil
The airlines that agreed to this were BA, BMI, Excaliber, Virgin, Airtours and Monarch.
This doesnt mean that others won't accept taxying time.
To claim the time, you write a table in section 6 of your logbook on leaving the service which has the total sorties on each ttype multiplied by the factor and the total time claimed. This has to be signed by your boss.
I put my military taxying time in my CV total. All the airlines who saw it did not question it.
Of course, you can always keep a civil logbook as well, logging actual blocks time. I know of one mil pilot who does this.
The CAA (when issuing JAA licences) do not formally recognise taxying time for the crediting of hours towards an ATPL. However, on request they may allow some taxying time up to a maximum of 75 hours if your hours for the issue of a an ATPL are tight.
In 1996, the RAF contacted several airlines asking whether they would accept a notional taxying time per sortie to prevent military pilots being disadvantaged by the RAF practice of logging takeoff to landing.
The agreed times were as follows.
FW Training aircraft: 10 mins
Fast Jets: 10 mins
ME transport aircraft: 15 mins
Dispaly flying: 5 mins
Wheeled helo airfield ops: 5 mins
Wheeled helo field ops: nil
Non wheeled helos: nil
Carrier ops: nil
The airlines that agreed to this were BA, BMI, Excaliber, Virgin, Airtours and Monarch.
This doesnt mean that others won't accept taxying time.
To claim the time, you write a table in section 6 of your logbook on leaving the service which has the total sorties on each ttype multiplied by the factor and the total time claimed. This has to be signed by your boss.
I put my military taxying time in my CV total. All the airlines who saw it did not question it.
Of course, you can always keep a civil logbook as well, logging actual blocks time. I know of one mil pilot who does this.
