Type Rating to fly to Europe
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Type Rating to fly to Europe
We have a Citation Soveriegn based in the U.S. and probably will be flying to Europe this summer. My question is do both pilots have to be typed to fly to Europe or just the PIC. If the answer is both where is this written.
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Both crew MUST be rated......
....But just get the SIC to show up at your local FSDO with the paperwork for their 61.55 check and a completed 8710. they'll then be able to get a Temporary Airman Certificate (there and then) with a CE-680 SIC Type Rating on it.
Its actually written on the letter to which your plastic card Airman Certificate came attached; In essence it's an ICAO requirement and in europe if you're ramp-checked the SAFA inspection will be an ICAO spec ramp-check. Endure one without two type certificated crew and your aircraft will be going nowhere until you can produce such a crew.
Its also worth pointing out that they must have completed 61.55 requirements within 12 months and the PIC may not alternate types as provided under 61.58 (i.e. the last 61.58 must have been on the type concerned)
PM me if you have any problems or want any help with flying in Europe generally.
Its actually written on the letter to which your plastic card Airman Certificate came attached; In essence it's an ICAO requirement and in europe if you're ramp-checked the SAFA inspection will be an ICAO spec ramp-check. Endure one without two type certificated crew and your aircraft will be going nowhere until you can produce such a crew.
Its also worth pointing out that they must have completed 61.55 requirements within 12 months and the PIC may not alternate types as provided under 61.58 (i.e. the last 61.58 must have been on the type concerned)
PM me if you have any problems or want any help with flying in Europe generally.
HS125
We alternate between two types for 61.58 checks. Is this now unacceptable in the EASA region? If so, please send a reference. I am not trying to question you, but trying to keep my ops legal
We alternate between two types for 61.58 checks. Is this now unacceptable in the EASA region? If so, please send a reference. I am not trying to question you, but trying to keep my ops legal
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AFAIK you, or the SIC that is, needs to have C680 SIC only in the FAA license. I'm sorry that I can't point you to the "proof" but that is the way it is and that is the way I used to fly (N-reg a/c since 2004 in my case).
When you do the 61.58 just ask the examiner to put a SIC only on your license.
When you do the 61.58 just ask the examiner to put a SIC only on your license.
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AFAIK you, or the SIC that is, needs to have C680 SIC only in the FAA license
You have to comply with FAR 61.55 not a 61.58.... No flight test nor exam required, just get someone to sign a 8400/8410 (??) and present it to the FSDO.
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If so, please send a reference
The FAA does things just slightly differently (and, a whole lot more reasonably), and EASA has no choice but to accept this at face value, where US registered aircraft and FAA certificated pilots are concerned.
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Annex 1 states that the crew must be qualified to fly the aircraft with a type rating. Generally, you can happily fly your C680 in the USA and no one will ask you to prove that you are qualified to fly that aircraft. In Europe and in compliance with ICAO, they will ask you to prove it. So make sure you comply with FAR 61.55.....
This is from the US NBAA..
Second-In-Command Type Rating
Updated February 22, 2007
On August 4, 2005, the FAA released a final rule on the new second-in-command (SIC) pilot type rating to bring the U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations into compliance with international standards on pilot certificates. On September 9, 2005, the FAA reissued the final rule to correct the compliance date.
Updated February 22, 2007
On August 4, 2005, the FAA released a final rule on the new second-in-command (SIC) pilot type rating to bring the U.S. Federal Aviation Regulations into compliance with international standards on pilot certificates. On September 9, 2005, the FAA reissued the final rule to correct the compliance date.
Last edited by mutt; 12th Feb 2011 at 17:33. Reason: Didnt notice the thread direction had changed, apologies to 411A.
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Actually Mutt, I was referring to the alternate yearly training with pilots with more than one type rating.
Yes, a type rating is required for the second in command, however...the FAA allows alternate type training on a yearly basis, for pilots that fly more than one (but similar) types, and that is what (I believe) galaxy flier was referring to.
I have personally noticed this recently with one of our pilots when arriving in Europe.
He had the specific type rating (as required) however the inspector attending wanted to see his latest Flight Safety proficiency check training records.
These are not the required documents to be shown.
A quick call to the commercial attache at the US consulate was made, and said inspector was told (by his respective office) to buzz off and not make a further fool of himself.
It would thus appear that some EASA inspectors just simply do not know the rules, and I would suggest that if they do not....they have no business in their respective position.
Yes, a type rating is required for the second in command, however...the FAA allows alternate type training on a yearly basis, for pilots that fly more than one (but similar) types, and that is what (I believe) galaxy flier was referring to.
I have personally noticed this recently with one of our pilots when arriving in Europe.
He had the specific type rating (as required) however the inspector attending wanted to see his latest Flight Safety proficiency check training records.
These are not the required documents to be shown.
A quick call to the commercial attache at the US consulate was made, and said inspector was told (by his respective office) to buzz off and not make a further fool of himself.
It would thus appear that some EASA inspectors just simply do not know the rules, and I would suggest that if they do not....they have no business in their respective position.
Yes, 411A, I was referring to the alternate annual training cycle. All of my pilots are current, under FAR 61, on two types and complete 61.58 PPCs on each type in alternating years. So, is it now the case, if I haven't attended training in Type X and are ramped in LFPB and not done a recurrent in Type X in 13 months, despite having done recurrent last month in Type Y, I am in violation and will be prohibited to operate in EASA airspace. Yes, all our guys have full ratings, not SICs, operate under an IS-BAO registered program and are otherwise current.
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...and are ramped in LFPB
The Captain called the US consulate, the consulate called the local DGCA inspectors office, and said inspector retreated, post haste.
The First Officer in this case had the appropriate rating, however the inspector, for some unknown reason, demanded additional documentation, re training.
He didn't get it.
The First Officer, oddly enough, was a retired USAF Colonel, and has very good connections at the FAA...and said he could arrange an interesting reception for a visiting French-registered bizjet, in MIA or ATL....and knowing his reputation, I well expect he could.
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Again it's an ICAO standard, and from the SAFA inspections manual:
With regard to pilot licensing three different scenarios can be identified.
[quote]
Case 1
State of Licensing issuance is the same as the State of Registry
Instructions
Check that pilot licence is issued i.a.w. the applicable ICAO Standards of Annex 1.
[quote/]
AFAIK the ability to alternate types is an FAA standard and not an ICAO standard so legally ambiguous outside the USA.... Depends how deep into the inspection they get but worthy of note?!
With regard to pilot licensing three different scenarios can be identified.
[quote]
Case 1
State of Licensing issuance is the same as the State of Registry
Instructions
Check that pilot licence is issued i.a.w. the applicable ICAO Standards of Annex 1.
[quote/]
AFAIK the ability to alternate types is an FAA standard and not an ICAO standard so legally ambiguous outside the USA.... Depends how deep into the inspection they get but worthy of note?!
