Night time visual approaches
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Night time visual approaches
At night, you are radar vectored and then cleared for a visual approach. When can you descend below the last assigned altitude?
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This is too general a question. What country are you in? Are you in controlled airspace? Is the approach subject to a conditional descent profile by ATC? Are there any company constraints in your Flight Ops Manual?
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Better be careful with nighttime visual approaches.
I watched with some amusement years ago when a Western Airlines DC-6B 'performed' a nighttime visual approach...and instead of landing at LAX, landed on the Hughes Aircraft runway, just to the north.
No one was especially pleased, especially as the western half of the Hughes runway was closed for repaving.
Many (most) successful aircarrier approaches and landings at night are completed after the appropriate instrument procedure is flown...to the desired landing runway.
I watched with some amusement years ago when a Western Airlines DC-6B 'performed' a nighttime visual approach...and instead of landing at LAX, landed on the Hughes Aircraft runway, just to the north.
No one was especially pleased, especially as the western half of the Hughes runway was closed for repaving.
Many (most) successful aircarrier approaches and landings at night are completed after the appropriate instrument procedure is flown...to the desired landing runway.
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Don't do it. Night time visual approaches are a recipe for disaster, unless it is the final stages of an instrument approach that has a visual segment. E.G. Circling Approach or an off set/non straight in NPA.
Avoid imitations
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Radar vectors would be nice. So would a runway. 
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Really? Some of you are advocating against night visuals? Most of the airports I've been to stay in the same place regardless of the lighting conditions.
VFR, no serious terrain, and a familiar airport - no problems.
The descent restriction is entirely on your Ops Specs and ATC restrictions in that country.
VFR, no serious terrain, and a familiar airport - no problems.
The descent restriction is entirely on your Ops Specs and ATC restrictions in that country.
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To be fair, night visual approaches are VERY easy to screw up.
Some places are almost not recognizable or invisible from some angles. And many, in Norway for example, hidden by dirty great lumps of dirt.
Some places are almost not recognizable or invisible from some angles. And many, in Norway for example, hidden by dirty great lumps of dirt.
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Done all the time in the U.S.
Done all the time in the U.S. Problems....sure, but consider that, at one point, Delta Airlines was considering establishing a crew base at MacDill AFB.
No, if you keep your head out of your XXX, night visual approaches can be accomplished safely.
A lot of the MacDill landings were done in daylight.......
Duh!!!!!!
Fly safe,
PantLoad
p.s. OK, you guessed it. I'm not a retired Delta pilot.....
No, if you keep your head out of your XXX, night visual approaches can be accomplished safely.
A lot of the MacDill landings were done in daylight.......
Duh!!!!!!
Fly safe,
PantLoad
p.s. OK, you guessed it. I'm not a retired Delta pilot.....
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When can you descend below the last assigned altitude?
Don't do it.
Of course, even when cleared for a visual, there's no reason why one can't maintain the altitudes and course applicable to existing instrument procedures. A visual backed up by an approach isn't a bad idea.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Most of the companies I have worked for it is SOP to maintain the Instrument approach altitudes, for example, if the IFR approach says 1500' at the OM then that applies, visual approach, day or night and any other restrictions further back up the slope, often associated with DME distances too.
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you may descend immediately upon approach clearance
HOWEVER...much of the above is good advice.
IF you are in the USA and in what we use to call a TCA, now Class B airspace, you may not leave it.
there are regulations which demand you staying at or above a normal glideslope while in a turbine powered plane.
I would always use backup nav, ILS, or DME/VOR or whatever you have to help in ANY visual approach.
Also, some visual approach procedures, charted, have restrictions on altitude like: cleared for River Visual KDCA 19
HOWEVER...much of the above is good advice.
IF you are in the USA and in what we use to call a TCA, now Class B airspace, you may not leave it.
there are regulations which demand you staying at or above a normal glideslope while in a turbine powered plane.
I would always use backup nav, ILS, or DME/VOR or whatever you have to help in ANY visual approach.
Also, some visual approach procedures, charted, have restrictions on altitude like: cleared for River Visual KDCA 19
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Any one here believing that night time visual approaches are dangerous, should not even attempt a night visual approach.
In fact, don't even attempt a day time visual approach.
In fact, just don't fly for a living.
In fact, don't even attempt a day time visual approach.
In fact, just don't fly for a living.
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I was told....As a result of two Air France aircraft crashes off night visuals over the sea to runway 12 Bahrain.... Gulf Aviation rules were in the 1970s to always use the 30 ILS for landings if the wind was within limits and to always us an ILS if within limits at night elsewhere.
Later the Gf trainer pilots seemed to ignore this requirement and later one of their A320 also crashed doing a night visual over the sea into runway12 at Bahrain.
Also told the second Air France aircraft was flown by the ace accident investigation team inbound to investigate the first crash.
I think they were either DC4 or DC6 aircraft...so crashes off night visuals are not new.
I have done night visuals over water into island strips with no navigation aids in DC3 and HS748 aircraft...sometimes only two burning oil drums were the only lighting sometimes only two trucks with their lights on...I thought the worst were over forests into only runway edge lights...no approach or runway end ident. lights...when Papi and Vasi lights were introduced my adrenalin level dropped somewhat.
You can do them... and you can be trained to do them...but I feel they have no part in airline passenger operations on a regular bases...In my later years I always refused any ATC invitation to drop their radar vectors and go visual and liked to keep them working and stick with their radar vectors backed up by idented localizer and glide slope information if available.
Anyway I am sure many of you will disagree with my approach to night visuals
during my career...the nice thing being alive and retired is I do not really give ****.
Later the Gf trainer pilots seemed to ignore this requirement and later one of their A320 also crashed doing a night visual over the sea into runway12 at Bahrain.
Also told the second Air France aircraft was flown by the ace accident investigation team inbound to investigate the first crash.
I think they were either DC4 or DC6 aircraft...so crashes off night visuals are not new.
I have done night visuals over water into island strips with no navigation aids in DC3 and HS748 aircraft...sometimes only two burning oil drums were the only lighting sometimes only two trucks with their lights on...I thought the worst were over forests into only runway edge lights...no approach or runway end ident. lights...when Papi and Vasi lights were introduced my adrenalin level dropped somewhat.
You can do them... and you can be trained to do them...but I feel they have no part in airline passenger operations on a regular bases...In my later years I always refused any ATC invitation to drop their radar vectors and go visual and liked to keep them working and stick with their radar vectors backed up by idented localizer and glide slope information if available.
Anyway I am sure many of you will disagree with my approach to night visuals
during my career...the nice thing being alive and retired is I do not really give ****.
