STOP! -- You're going to kill my children
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
STOP! -- You're going to kill my children
The company I work for is subsidising the cost of some short (15 minute) glider flights for employees and families.
I have 2 children, and (unfortunatly) one ex-wife.
She seems to think that gliding is only marginally less dangerous than skydiving sans parachute.
Can anyone give me some advice as to how dangerous gliding (not hang-gliding) really is.
I feel I am more likely to die in a car accident on the way to Cunderdin (near Perth, Western Australia) than while flying in a glider.
Comments?
(editied for bad directions :-) )
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: [Steve] ]
I have 2 children, and (unfortunatly) one ex-wife.
She seems to think that gliding is only marginally less dangerous than skydiving sans parachute.
Can anyone give me some advice as to how dangerous gliding (not hang-gliding) really is.
I feel I am more likely to die in a car accident on the way to Cunderdin (near Perth, Western Australia) than while flying in a glider.
Comments?
(editied for bad directions :-) )
[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: [Steve] ]
![[Steve] is offline](https://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Berlin, Bremen, Phoenix
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
>"I feel I am more likely to die in a car accident on the way to Cunderdin (near Perth, Western Australia) than while flying in a glider."<
For shure, the way to an airfield/airport (car, bus, train, coach, ...) is every time and every place more dangerous than flying!
byc
For shure, the way to an airfield/airport (car, bus, train, coach, ...) is every time and every place more dangerous than flying!
byc
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Around the world.
Age: 42
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For some reason I have a statistic stuck in my mind: Gliding is more dangerous than driving a car, about on a par with driving a motorbike.....but again I don't know how these stats are worked out. I can't verify the source of this, so someone please correct me if wrong.
Would advice giving it a go, its good fun.
Would advice giving it a go, its good fun.
Flies for fun
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Wishing it was somewhere sunny!
Posts: 789
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think that I'm dead yet! But I suppose the thought of catapulting oneself into the sky on a piece of wire in an aircraft without an engine probably does sound rather perilous and madcap to the uninitiated!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aaah PPrune.. it's been a while folks... 
Ignoring meteorological issues such as thermals etc. as long as you don't stall it, and keep it going forwards, the glider will keep you up..!(!) assuming the wings don't fall off (which, let's face it, is pretty unlikely)
so.. about as safe as... well, flying, really!
Andy
Ignoring meteorological issues such as thermals etc. as long as you don't stall it, and keep it going forwards, the glider will keep you up..!(!) assuming the wings don't fall off (which, let's face it, is pretty unlikely)
so.. about as safe as... well, flying, really!
Andy
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A single trip for air experience/trial lesson in a glider is about as safe as gliding gets - no unusual attitutes, usually within the circuit or not far away, no manoeuvres likely to cause a problem.
It is not totally safe - no life experience is (there was once a fatality when someone was playing chess!). It is statistically less dangerous than powerflying, but I know of one fatality which did occur during a trial lesson - one in perhaps hundreds of thousands. (New instructor, spun in from final turn in a glider with known sudden departure characteristics - but the instructor, having been told about that, didn't believe it or that it could happen to him.)
There has been one bail-out with a first-timer on board - successful - when a freak lightning strike hit a glider and literally blew it apart. The first-timer had been thoroughly briefed on parachute and bail-out procedure "just in case" and it all worked. Better chance than in a light a/c where parachutes are uncommon.
There have been a few minor injuries from heavy landings. Shouldn't happen with competent instructors, but occasionally has.
Check out with the club you hope to fly from what is their accident record, what experience will the instructor have, do they give proper briefing etc. - all should say the right sort of things.
In the end, though, people who go gliding are not pax in an airline - they join the gliding club as members, and fly as a member of the flight crew (Pilot under training). It is a sport, not a passennger ride, even if they don't want to touch the controls.
Chris N.
It is not totally safe - no life experience is (there was once a fatality when someone was playing chess!). It is statistically less dangerous than powerflying, but I know of one fatality which did occur during a trial lesson - one in perhaps hundreds of thousands. (New instructor, spun in from final turn in a glider with known sudden departure characteristics - but the instructor, having been told about that, didn't believe it or that it could happen to him.)
There has been one bail-out with a first-timer on board - successful - when a freak lightning strike hit a glider and literally blew it apart. The first-timer had been thoroughly briefed on parachute and bail-out procedure "just in case" and it all worked. Better chance than in a light a/c where parachutes are uncommon.
There have been a few minor injuries from heavy landings. Shouldn't happen with competent instructors, but occasionally has.
Check out with the club you hope to fly from what is their accident record, what experience will the instructor have, do they give proper briefing etc. - all should say the right sort of things.
In the end, though, people who go gliding are not pax in an airline - they join the gliding club as members, and fly as a member of the flight crew (Pilot under training). It is a sport, not a passennger ride, even if they don't want to touch the controls.
Chris N.
I'matightbastard
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,747
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can't give you statistics, but it's a lot of fun and an absolutely great way to introduce yougsters to flying. Don't know about the UK or OZ, but here in Texas (where have I heard THAT before 
)...Here in texas you can solo at 14. How many of their chums at school could have anything to match that?
BTW, I had my nephew out this summer as he turned 14 last Dec and I got him to where I thought he was ready to go. Had to put him through a stage check and the local guy said he was pretty much ready but perhaps a few more times around the pattern and he'd sign him off. We ran out of time unfortunately, but I spoke with the boy and it was good to see that he wasn't interested on the solo so much as he was on being safe and learning thouroughly etc. Of course, he is of above average intelligence
If you don't hate your ex, you could try to arrange a day there for every one and let her see for herself what goes on as knowledge conquers fear right? That way, everyone gets involved and takes it nice and slowly.
Gool Luck
Onan CFIG
BTW, the stage check guy was a nice bloke, but I was pretty much up to the point where I had to take a good book with me as even a 14 year old can do very uneventful patterns.
)...Here in texas you can solo at 14. How many of their chums at school could have anything to match that?BTW, I had my nephew out this summer as he turned 14 last Dec and I got him to where I thought he was ready to go. Had to put him through a stage check and the local guy said he was pretty much ready but perhaps a few more times around the pattern and he'd sign him off. We ran out of time unfortunately, but I spoke with the boy and it was good to see that he wasn't interested on the solo so much as he was on being safe and learning thouroughly etc. Of course, he is of above average intelligence
If you don't hate your ex, you could try to arrange a day there for every one and let her see for herself what goes on as knowledge conquers fear right? That way, everyone gets involved and takes it nice and slowly.
Gool Luck
Onan CFIG
BTW, the stage check guy was a nice bloke, but I was pretty much up to the point where I had to take a good book with me as even a 14 year old can do very uneventful patterns.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Scandiland
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A glider is safer than a powered A/C like a Cessna or similar. This is because it is designed to be without a powerplant. A C172 or a PA-28 is designed to employ a powerplant to remain airborne. This means that if this powerplant fails, the A/C WILL descend.
Landing a powered A/C is very different from landing a glider. A C172 uses its power to controll the glidepath down to the runway.
A glider uses speedbrakes to controll the glidepath which gives a reverse effect. This is the safest method to use if you haven't got available power, as you just dump lift and keep the speed down at the same time. A C172 landing power-off hasn't got that same safety, eventhough there are flaps to controll glidepath to some extent, they are only half as effective and do not work in the same way as speedbrakes. This means that a C172 doing a power-off does not have the same room for mistakes as a glider has. If the C 172 gets hot and high, it is likely to miss the field (if it is really short mind you!!!). A glider though, has very effective airbrakes and can lose excess hight very fast without having to transfer the altitude into speed. The energy is used to power turbulence behind the speedbrake.
What I'm trying to say here is that a glider is more suited to fly without power than a normal light A/C and is thus much safer. In sweden we also allways use parachutes and I believe many countries use them too. It is a very pleasant experience and I hope your ex comes along and agrees to let you take your children to the field. They will remember it!
However, ther are some dangers to the sport. While flying in thermals, planes are often very close and a constant awareness of eachothers position is very important. Mid-air colisions have been known to happen. Another injury is spinal compresions due to hard landings. These dangers are however not so frequent that they from my piont of view make me reluctant from flying. Mid-airs are NOT frequent and most oftenly occur during competitions when there are extreemly many gliders in one area.
Something to keep in mind is the supply of water aswell. Never fly unless you've got a good supply of fluid with you. Dehydration is very easily acchieved in a glider as it works as a greenhouse. Even slightest dehydration will impair the performance in cockpit and it is a risk that can be easily dealt with. Just keep a keen look out and drink plenty and you'll be fine.
best regards/lns
[ 27 October 2001: Message edited by: low n' slow ]
Landing a powered A/C is very different from landing a glider. A C172 uses its power to controll the glidepath down to the runway.
A glider uses speedbrakes to controll the glidepath which gives a reverse effect. This is the safest method to use if you haven't got available power, as you just dump lift and keep the speed down at the same time. A C172 landing power-off hasn't got that same safety, eventhough there are flaps to controll glidepath to some extent, they are only half as effective and do not work in the same way as speedbrakes. This means that a C172 doing a power-off does not have the same room for mistakes as a glider has. If the C 172 gets hot and high, it is likely to miss the field (if it is really short mind you!!!). A glider though, has very effective airbrakes and can lose excess hight very fast without having to transfer the altitude into speed. The energy is used to power turbulence behind the speedbrake.
What I'm trying to say here is that a glider is more suited to fly without power than a normal light A/C and is thus much safer. In sweden we also allways use parachutes and I believe many countries use them too. It is a very pleasant experience and I hope your ex comes along and agrees to let you take your children to the field. They will remember it!
However, ther are some dangers to the sport. While flying in thermals, planes are often very close and a constant awareness of eachothers position is very important. Mid-air colisions have been known to happen. Another injury is spinal compresions due to hard landings. These dangers are however not so frequent that they from my piont of view make me reluctant from flying. Mid-airs are NOT frequent and most oftenly occur during competitions when there are extreemly many gliders in one area.
Something to keep in mind is the supply of water aswell. Never fly unless you've got a good supply of fluid with you. Dehydration is very easily acchieved in a glider as it works as a greenhouse. Even slightest dehydration will impair the performance in cockpit and it is a risk that can be easily dealt with. Just keep a keen look out and drink plenty and you'll be fine.
best regards/lns
[ 27 October 2001: Message edited by: low n' slow ]
Statistically gliding is slightly less safe than certified GA flying. GA flying from 1990-1999 suffered 1 fatal per 70,000 hrs, compared to 1 per 47,000 hrs.
In a half hour trial flight, statistically then there's arguably a 1 in 94,000 chance of your children being killed, as compared to a 1 in 16,000 chance of either of them being killed on the road in a given year (based on 3,500 deaths per year and 56 million people in the UK).
However realistically, virtually all glider fatalities are due to collisions due to several gliders thermalling under the same cloud - highly unlikely to occur on a trial flight. Also inevitably, they'll be flying with a QGI who (particularly with a child on board) will be a more experienced pilot, flying safely. I'd say this probably puts the realistic odds of a fatality at about 1 in a quarter million.
Hope this helps. If you want chapter and verse on GA accidents, the CAA publish CAP 701, which costs about Ģ6 and I regularly use to explain why flying little aeroplanes is perfectly safe.
G
In a half hour trial flight, statistically then there's arguably a 1 in 94,000 chance of your children being killed, as compared to a 1 in 16,000 chance of either of them being killed on the road in a given year (based on 3,500 deaths per year and 56 million people in the UK).
However realistically, virtually all glider fatalities are due to collisions due to several gliders thermalling under the same cloud - highly unlikely to occur on a trial flight. Also inevitably, they'll be flying with a QGI who (particularly with a child on board) will be a more experienced pilot, flying safely. I'd say this probably puts the realistic odds of a fatality at about 1 in a quarter million.
Hope this helps. If you want chapter and verse on GA accidents, the CAA publish CAP 701, which costs about Ģ6 and I regularly use to explain why flying little aeroplanes is perfectly safe.
G
Postscript to that, I've just noticed that you're in Oz; the numbers I've used are for the UK.
I'd guess that statistically gliding becomes safer for you - there's far more empty airspace to play in. I've no feel for Australian road traffic, but suspect that you probably have more hostile wildlife jumping out at you than we do.
I remember an RAAF friend saying some very uncomplimentary things about Kangaroos on runways mind you.
G
I'd guess that statistically gliding becomes safer for you - there's far more empty airspace to play in. I've no feel for Australian road traffic, but suspect that you probably have more hostile wildlife jumping out at you than we do.
I remember an RAAF friend saying some very uncomplimentary things about Kangaroos on runways mind you.
G
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: LOCATION LOCATION
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A typical keen glider pilot will do three thousand hours in a lifetime. A one in fifteen chance of dying is not a nice thought. [yes, i know it's irrellevant to this topic, sorry]
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eh....just check hers and your Life Insurance and Morgage Insurance policies . If Oz is anything like UK you will find that "dangerous sports" such as gliding, hang gliding. white water rafting and suchlike invalidates the policy. Wanna take the risk ?....have fun !!!....Incidentally "going for a quiet pint in Earls Court with Australian passport holders" is " a dangerous sport"...in my policies.........only kidding
There is a 1 in 1 chance of dieing in a lifetime, what you're actually saying is that by spending most of your freetime for your adult life gliding, there's a 1 in 14 chance that a flying accident will be the reason.
G
G
