Very late go-around at Geneva
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Long Range Cruise,
Let me start by saying that my previous post was very much inspired by 411A's "Sky God" attitude. Luckily not all crew members are like that, and you may rest assured that I will offer all the respect due for any staff member, if he or she in turn shows respect for other professions. Sadly this seems not to be the case with 411A and thus he will not be shown any respect from my side. I am sure he couldn't care less.
As you said, nothing moves without cockpit crew. I will venture to say that the same goes for virtually any profession in the business, be that cabin crew, engineers, loaders, fuellers, dispatchers, ATCO and on and on. However, it seems that some, and I do stress some, cockpit crew members are under the illusion that they are the end all and be all of aviation. I will beg to differ.
I did not write the post to start an anti-pilot thread; I belive that we are all "on the same team", and merely wished to confront 411A with that. Finally, I do appreciate that flying the aircraft "nicely" is imperative to the comfort of the pax. However, that is what the passenger expects just as well as they expect a certain level of service offered by the cabin crew. And, let's face it, nobody down the back would ever notice your stress level however high it might get (short of an accident). The same cannot be said of the cabin crew, as they will convey any stress direct to the pax.
Trust this clarifies.
Let me start by saying that my previous post was very much inspired by 411A's "Sky God" attitude. Luckily not all crew members are like that, and you may rest assured that I will offer all the respect due for any staff member, if he or she in turn shows respect for other professions. Sadly this seems not to be the case with 411A and thus he will not be shown any respect from my side. I am sure he couldn't care less.
As you said, nothing moves without cockpit crew. I will venture to say that the same goes for virtually any profession in the business, be that cabin crew, engineers, loaders, fuellers, dispatchers, ATCO and on and on. However, it seems that some, and I do stress some, cockpit crew members are under the illusion that they are the end all and be all of aviation. I will beg to differ.
I did not write the post to start an anti-pilot thread; I belive that we are all "on the same team", and merely wished to confront 411A with that. Finally, I do appreciate that flying the aircraft "nicely" is imperative to the comfort of the pax. However, that is what the passenger expects just as well as they expect a certain level of service offered by the cabin crew. And, let's face it, nobody down the back would ever notice your stress level however high it might get (short of an accident). The same cannot be said of the cabin crew, as they will convey any stress direct to the pax.
Trust this clarifies.
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I think this shines some light on how different aircrews run their aircraft. Interesting to say the least. Perhaps the confrontation could cease? We are professional, right? <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
ex-Tanker
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Now there's a co-incidence - just had to do a GA at Gatwick today, as a very slow line up took place ahead of us. We started from about 400ft. To help us get in quickly, the tower gave us a heading and a freq change during the clean-up.
Nevertheless there was a quiet enough moment in between the action and the checklist to inform the pax (one language only) what was going on - I reckon within one minute of the pull up. After landing we managed a bit more detail as we rolled up 08L. It worked seemingly as the pax were appreciative on disembarkation.
Nevertheless there was a quiet enough moment in between the action and the checklist to inform the pax (one language only) what was going on - I reckon within one minute of the pull up. After landing we managed a bit more detail as we rolled up 08L. It worked seemingly as the pax were appreciative on disembarkation.
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Few Cloudy, isn't that the beauty of this place? Lots of the things we discuss here are very readily applicable in our daily lives, and for me personally, the things I read here, and the differing opinions and views, ceratinly shape my attitude aboard.. .A very useful learning experience.
411A, seems as if once again the words got in the way of the basic meaning. . .Reading your last two posts I'd say that underneath your "tough guy macho talk" and my "bleeding heart wimin's lib talk" we basically agree on the subject of who runs what and who is responsible for what on a cicvilian airliner.
Another misunderstanding cleared up.
411A, seems as if once again the words got in the way of the basic meaning. . .Reading your last two posts I'd say that underneath your "tough guy macho talk" and my "bleeding heart wimin's lib talk" we basically agree on the subject of who runs what and who is responsible for what on a cicvilian airliner.
Another misunderstanding cleared up.
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Get outta here, they weren't going around because the cabin wasn't secure... they were going around for some other reason. Could be ATC spacing, could be as one of you guys said "dogs humpin' on the runway". I could think of, right off the top of my head, about half a dozen things that would have caused that flight to go-around.
In reality, sometimes us pilots lie to the passengers. Back in '93, the Captain I was flyin' with told the passengers that the reason they were circling was because "the machine that beats up and looses your luggage is inoperative and is in need of repairs". Do you honestly think that's true?
I usually just say "Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Captain-speaking, we had to go around, we're gonna circle around and try again." (I've been a Captain since '96) That's it. I usually don't lie, I just omit. But some pilots make up stuff. The "machine that beats up and looses your luggage" was simply a sillier (and much funnier) example. I recall busting out laughing when I heard that one actually .
In reality, sometimes us pilots lie to the passengers. Back in '93, the Captain I was flyin' with told the passengers that the reason they were circling was because "the machine that beats up and looses your luggage is inoperative and is in need of repairs". Do you honestly think that's true?
I usually just say "Ladies and Gentlemen, this is the Captain-speaking, we had to go around, we're gonna circle around and try again." (I've been a Captain since '96) That's it. I usually don't lie, I just omit. But some pilots make up stuff. The "machine that beats up and looses your luggage" was simply a sillier (and much funnier) example. I recall busting out laughing when I heard that one actually
.
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Well no matter how embarrassed or uncomfortable it may make you feel, I found out that honest information is the best way. The passengers feel that they are being taken seriously and appreciate it.
I once had to tell them that a tyre had broken and gone into an engine (MD-81) and that we had a complicated bit of trouble shooting to do. Turned out later that some of them could see the remnants of the tyre sitting over the inlet vanes. Everyone stayed calm and waited while we got on with it.
On another occasion when I was copilot, my captain informed the pax that the delay for startup was due to an ATC slot. On this occasion they could see their late arriving luggage being loaded and were not too happy.
BTW, I happen to know that the reason for the EZS 904 GA was indeed an insecure cabin following one of Geneva's famous short cuts. The subject of whether a landing is preferable to a GA is being looked at right now.
I once had to tell them that a tyre had broken and gone into an engine (MD-81) and that we had a complicated bit of trouble shooting to do. Turned out later that some of them could see the remnants of the tyre sitting over the inlet vanes. Everyone stayed calm and waited while we got on with it.
On another occasion when I was copilot, my captain informed the pax that the delay for startup was due to an ATC slot. On this occasion they could see their late arriving luggage being loaded and were not too happy.
BTW, I happen to know that the reason for the EZS 904 GA was indeed an insecure cabin following one of Geneva's famous short cuts. The subject of whether a landing is preferable to a GA is being looked at right now.
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A411, I see that you have removed the spiteful post that was here a few hours ago.. .Well done, I was starting to wonder if you had experienced a case of hydraulic failure last time 'round. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
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Actually flapsforty, I was in the process of editing, but deleted instead.... .But just to show that I never cut the cabin any slack.....the cabin crew got it wrong once again, it would appear...perhaps more training would help <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
