US pilot with JAR type rating validity duration question.
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US pilot with JAR type rating validity duration question.
I have a US FAA PIC type rating which I used in Asia as a PIC on a contract position in 2008-2009. I want to go back to Asia and fly but, unlike the FAA type ratings, (even though the companies accept FAA ICAO) JAR type ratings apparently expire.
My last flight in type was in June 2009, with my 6 month currency running on out on that aircraft at the end of June 2009. (I am assuming it was revalidated at Toulouse in January 2009)
I've read a JAR type rating expires after 5 years if not currently flown or re-validated on that type. Then I hear if you haven't flown on type in 18 months.
Any concrete information? I don't mind doing some simulator work to get current again but a whole recertification, to be eligible to apply, is a bit much.
Thanks in advance.
My last flight in type was in June 2009, with my 6 month currency running on out on that aircraft at the end of June 2009. (I am assuming it was revalidated at Toulouse in January 2009)
I've read a JAR type rating expires after 5 years if not currently flown or re-validated on that type. Then I hear if you haven't flown on type in 18 months.
Any concrete information? I don't mind doing some simulator work to get current again but a whole recertification, to be eligible to apply, is a bit much.
Thanks in advance.
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It all depends on the authorities which issued your papers. A JAA typerating is valid for 12 months plus the reminder of that month. If you did not undergo a checkflight within this validity period you want to ask the authorities first of their particular requirements to re-validate or renew the rating.
After 5 years it is gone....for sure.
After 5 years it is gone....for sure.
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Concrete information.
l had a similar problem a few years ago with my JAA licence.
Take the date of the last sim/profficiency check, add on one year less one day, then add on 5yrs.
lf inside that you need to pass the sim check.
lf 24hrs outside.......
Start from scratch.
l have the copy of the uk caa regs supplied by Gatwick lurking around somewhere, if you`re stuck pm your email address and l`ll dig it out.
lt`s what a "special relationship" is about.
Good luck.
Take the date of the last sim/profficiency check, add on one year less one day, then add on 5yrs.
lf inside that you need to pass the sim check.
lf 24hrs outside.......
Start from scratch.
l have the copy of the uk caa regs supplied by Gatwick lurking around somewhere, if you`re stuck pm your email address and l`ll dig it out.
lt`s what a "special relationship" is about.
Good luck.
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That was quick !
Good luck again.
l think you`ll need it, l forgot to remark on the " have you flown the type within the last 90 days" stumbling block.
l blew 3k sterling on two 4hr sim sessions and a bout of ground school in Toulouse last year two be signed off on the latest model, and found it wasn`t enough.
lf we could rid ourselves of the agencies the airlines would have to get pro-active again. That would be good news.
Good luck again.
l think you`ll need it, l forgot to remark on the " have you flown the type within the last 90 days" stumbling block.
l blew 3k sterling on two 4hr sim sessions and a bout of ground school in Toulouse last year two be signed off on the latest model, and found it wasn`t enough.
lf we could rid ourselves of the agencies the airlines would have to get pro-active again. That would be good news.
Last edited by overun; 10th Jan 2011 at 01:55. Reason: forgot to say.
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Now that's a good question. What does an airline want in terms for currency for an ATR? I am willing to spend about what you did but not for naught. My type is current, but what else? I can't get the agencies to respond with what exactly I have to do; procedures, maneuvers, etc. The agencies, 9 out of 10 of them, are anything from slow, (multiple ones are the reason my currency expired) not very tuned in to what's needed (one example above) to outright fraud factories. Trying to get information from a carrier itself is pretty much impossible as well. You'd think going to Toulouse (I had a good experience there previously) would be enough or that the ATR center itself would know what would be required.
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May l make an unsolicited suggestion ?
Save your money for now, you have over three years before the rating evaporates. Don`t let your money evaporate before that.
Save your money for now, you have over three years before the rating evaporates. Don`t let your money evaporate before that.
Last edited by overun; 11th Jan 2011 at 10:14.
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JAR Type ratings
hello gents,
as far as I know, not all JAA coutries apply the same rules on prolonging an individualīs JAR TR/ATP:
normally type rating is valid for 12 month.
some coutries allow a certain period after that 12 month, where you can prolong your licence with an LPC (either on SIM or Aircraft)
be aware, that you need 10 sectors on type, within 12 months, or you will need an additional training flight with a TRE (at least 15 min of cruise portion plus SID and STAR and landing - so far requested by my national JAR CAA)
the austrian CAA (ACG) did a cut in june 2010, you can prolong your type rating by a simple LPC with the help of a TRE only within the 12 month of vailidity - there after (even one day)ACG requests you to do a full recurrent training at a TRTO (ground training, training session(s) and check session)
I am not aware, if other JAR countries apply the same rules, too.
fly safe
welle
as far as I know, not all JAA coutries apply the same rules on prolonging an individualīs JAR TR/ATP:
normally type rating is valid for 12 month.
some coutries allow a certain period after that 12 month, where you can prolong your licence with an LPC (either on SIM or Aircraft)
be aware, that you need 10 sectors on type, within 12 months, or you will need an additional training flight with a TRE (at least 15 min of cruise portion plus SID and STAR and landing - so far requested by my national JAR CAA)
the austrian CAA (ACG) did a cut in june 2010, you can prolong your type rating by a simple LPC with the help of a TRE only within the 12 month of vailidity - there after (even one day)ACG requests you to do a full recurrent training at a TRTO (ground training, training session(s) and check session)
I am not aware, if other JAR countries apply the same rules, too.
fly safe
welle
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Welle, thankyou very much for your input, it`s appreciated.
l think we may have confusion regarding validity periods.
The type rating l spoke of is the aircraft type on the licence and not a measure of currency - now that is measured in 6mth periods. ( or 12 months for the operators profficiency check ).
Thanks again Welle.
l think we may have confusion regarding validity periods.
The type rating l spoke of is the aircraft type on the licence and not a measure of currency - now that is measured in 6mth periods. ( or 12 months for the operators profficiency check ).
Thanks again Welle.
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Being FAA rated I suppose it behooves me to find out what some of the JAA/JAR terminology is. It hasn't been easy to find this material, and when I do I don't understand many of the acronyms. (Just as many FAA acronyms would be to others)
For example, LPC? A guess, considering the context here, Line pilot currency?
Or: if <10 sectors in 12 mo an additional training flight with a TRE that includes cruise, SID/STAR, etc. Is that in a airplane, not a sim? If so, that isn't going to happen! What a catch 22 to those not current. Additionally, the 3 passenger flights in 90 days in type, and things like that, is a modern day version of indentured servant. You are yoked to a particular type rating and to a carrier, perhaps a carrier that is unsafe/illegal, just so that you can move on to another carrier, which is of course, not yet proven to be a sanitary operation.
What is absurd is trying to find this sort of currency information from an agency, an airline, or a training center for a particular airline or countries regulatory agencies. Pilot recruitment agencies plead ignorance, and that is probably true. Airlines don't reply to it, even though I have actually applied to an open captain vacancy there. ATR training centers don't seem to be very interested in replying either, even though it is dollars or euro to them.All along there is the possible exception that disqualifies you with an airline if you go through a training center. And yet they keep advertising for experienced pilots with nothing specific as to what they actually require for currency. Sadly, it seems as if the ever increasing erosion of informational competency and a general give a turd mentality (which seems to have started in the US) is spreading far and wide. I enjoy contract flying but just don't feel like risking anything from USD $4-$17,000 for a recurrency just to find out it isn't what the airline wants, even though they earlier said it would be what's needed. My apologies for ranting and my apologies for the US being significantly responsible for being the contagion of illness in world aviation.
For example, LPC? A guess, considering the context here, Line pilot currency?
Or: if <10 sectors in 12 mo an additional training flight with a TRE that includes cruise, SID/STAR, etc. Is that in a airplane, not a sim? If so, that isn't going to happen! What a catch 22 to those not current. Additionally, the 3 passenger flights in 90 days in type, and things like that, is a modern day version of indentured servant. You are yoked to a particular type rating and to a carrier, perhaps a carrier that is unsafe/illegal, just so that you can move on to another carrier, which is of course, not yet proven to be a sanitary operation.
What is absurd is trying to find this sort of currency information from an agency, an airline, or a training center for a particular airline or countries regulatory agencies. Pilot recruitment agencies plead ignorance, and that is probably true. Airlines don't reply to it, even though I have actually applied to an open captain vacancy there. ATR training centers don't seem to be very interested in replying either, even though it is dollars or euro to them.All along there is the possible exception that disqualifies you with an airline if you go through a training center. And yet they keep advertising for experienced pilots with nothing specific as to what they actually require for currency. Sadly, it seems as if the ever increasing erosion of informational competency and a general give a turd mentality (which seems to have started in the US) is spreading far and wide. I enjoy contract flying but just don't feel like risking anything from USD $4-$17,000 for a recurrency just to find out it isn't what the airline wants, even though they earlier said it would be what's needed. My apologies for ranting and my apologies for the US being significantly responsible for being the contagion of illness in world aviation.
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end of confusion?
hello collegues -
as there might have been some confusion about terminlogy and FCL and OPS1 - iīll try to give a brief explanation (from my point of view):
first you have to divide FCL from OPS1 -
FCL: Flight Crew Licencing - all rules applicable to receive/keep/prolong your licence acc. JAR rules - nothing to do with Airlines, or requirements of operation etc...
to keep your type rating current you need:
A) 10 sectors within last 12 month and one LPC (licence proficiency check) either on SIM or aircraft, including the mandatory items like
rejected take off
v1 cut
single eng. approach and go around
etc
B) less than ten sectors (even 0) and one LPC plus one training flight with TRE (type rating examiner) trg flight can be done on SIM, too
C) type rating expired - no LPC check done within 12 month of validity or in 3 month time period after expiry (within certrain coutries)
Recurrent Training in approved TRTO required
Ground training
Sim Training
LPC SIM Check
(i guess the most cost intensive possibility)
D Current Medical
E Type rating expired, but less than 5 years after last LPC
recurrent trg from approved TRTO (type rating training organisation)
Ground training
Sim training
LPC check
so - these are the requirements to keep you licence current - to fly a private airplane with you current rating you do not need more, just a current licence and hop on to the controls.
on the other side there is OPS 1 - the JAA rules for AOC commercial transport (companies holding an AIR OPERATOR CERTIFICATE)
At least the following requirements to be scheduled as a pilot:
A) valid Typerating on ATP
B) LPC or OPC in the last 6 month
OPC = operators proficiency check - in general the same as LPC, but not used to prolong you licence, so, if you are flying for an airline or commercial charter operator, you need two checks per year, one LPC and one OPC,
C) all required trainings by authority or OM-A (ops manual A of the specific company) like
dangerours good
all weather operation
TCAS
RNAV
NATS
Winter OPS
SMS system
First AID
ditching
all of these trainings need to be current within their period, eg. one or two years, or just once after initial rating
D) three take offs and landings within the last 90 days on aircraft type as pilot flying
E) one LC Line Check within the last 12 month
A LC is a normal flight supervised by a TRE TRI or other nominated personal, used to evaluate the performance of the pilot on a normal routine flght.
F) Current Medical
so, as you see, it is much more complicated to fly an aircraft on an JAA AOC charter company, than in private operations. In general at least the requirements A-F have to be fulfilled, although a company might forget to ask a contract pilot about...., happenz both ways.
IMHO these OPS1 (and off course FTL from subpart Q = flight time limitations) are not made for the world of business aviation, but we have to cope with these rules specified for airlines.
Also contract agencies often mix FCL issues with OPS1 issues.
hope that helps and clariefies a little bit
welle
as there might have been some confusion about terminlogy and FCL and OPS1 - iīll try to give a brief explanation (from my point of view):
first you have to divide FCL from OPS1 -
FCL: Flight Crew Licencing - all rules applicable to receive/keep/prolong your licence acc. JAR rules - nothing to do with Airlines, or requirements of operation etc...
to keep your type rating current you need:
A) 10 sectors within last 12 month and one LPC (licence proficiency check) either on SIM or aircraft, including the mandatory items like
rejected take off
v1 cut
single eng. approach and go around
etc
B) less than ten sectors (even 0) and one LPC plus one training flight with TRE (type rating examiner) trg flight can be done on SIM, too
C) type rating expired - no LPC check done within 12 month of validity or in 3 month time period after expiry (within certrain coutries)
Recurrent Training in approved TRTO required
Ground training
Sim Training
LPC SIM Check
(i guess the most cost intensive possibility)
D Current Medical
E Type rating expired, but less than 5 years after last LPC
recurrent trg from approved TRTO (type rating training organisation)
Ground training
Sim training
LPC check
so - these are the requirements to keep you licence current - to fly a private airplane with you current rating you do not need more, just a current licence and hop on to the controls.
on the other side there is OPS 1 - the JAA rules for AOC commercial transport (companies holding an AIR OPERATOR CERTIFICATE)
At least the following requirements to be scheduled as a pilot:
A) valid Typerating on ATP
B) LPC or OPC in the last 6 month
OPC = operators proficiency check - in general the same as LPC, but not used to prolong you licence, so, if you are flying for an airline or commercial charter operator, you need two checks per year, one LPC and one OPC,
C) all required trainings by authority or OM-A (ops manual A of the specific company) like
dangerours good
all weather operation
TCAS
RNAV
NATS
Winter OPS
SMS system
First AID
ditching
all of these trainings need to be current within their period, eg. one or two years, or just once after initial rating
D) three take offs and landings within the last 90 days on aircraft type as pilot flying
E) one LC Line Check within the last 12 month
A LC is a normal flight supervised by a TRE TRI or other nominated personal, used to evaluate the performance of the pilot on a normal routine flght.
F) Current Medical
so, as you see, it is much more complicated to fly an aircraft on an JAA AOC charter company, than in private operations. In general at least the requirements A-F have to be fulfilled, although a company might forget to ask a contract pilot about...., happenz both ways.
IMHO these OPS1 (and off course FTL from subpart Q = flight time limitations) are not made for the world of business aviation, but we have to cope with these rules specified for airlines.
Also contract agencies often mix FCL issues with OPS1 issues.
hope that helps and clariefies a little bit
welle
