Visual Docking Guidance System
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Visual Docking Guidance System
Hello there,
I was advised to put this tread on this forum in order to get more pilot's attention on this subject, so here it is:
At LYBE we are trying to decide whether is better to repair our VDGS units or to buy a new one. In that manner I decide to consult ones (pilots) who know the best what are main features that makes one vdgs good.
What are the pilot's experiences with the visual guidance system on airports worldwide? Is the "Safegate" really so "safe"? What about FMT, Honeywell and ADB products? Which guidance technology has shown as the most friendly in parking operations - l@ser, ladar, radar, optic or the simple one with the bars and tubes, mirrors?
Thank you for helping me gather as much reviews to guide mo to the right conclusion about the world trends in visual docking guidance. So, whatever you think as important fact related to this subject - shoot!
I was advised to put this tread on this forum in order to get more pilot's attention on this subject, so here it is:
At LYBE we are trying to decide whether is better to repair our VDGS units or to buy a new one. In that manner I decide to consult ones (pilots) who know the best what are main features that makes one vdgs good.
What are the pilot's experiences with the visual guidance system on airports worldwide? Is the "Safegate" really so "safe"? What about FMT, Honeywell and ADB products? Which guidance technology has shown as the most friendly in parking operations - l@ser, ladar, radar, optic or the simple one with the bars and tubes, mirrors?
Thank you for helping me gather as much reviews to guide mo to the right conclusion about the world trends in visual docking guidance. So, whatever you think as important fact related to this subject - shoot!
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I think the remote bays in Rome are best. Lots of guys standing around talking, paying no attention to you at all, drive down the line and stop where you feel its about right.
Safedock seems to be the most common in major international airports I go to, must say something about it. Aircraft Positioning and Information Systemseems to work well but is left seat only. Safegate looks fancy but is pretty much the same as safedock although never seen one.
No one likes the bars and tubes that I have come across. Both seat docking is better. As long as it gives left/right and distance to go indications I don't think many pilots really care too much what the docking system is.
Safedock seems to be the most common in major international airports I go to, must say something about it. Aircraft Positioning and Information Systemseems to work well but is left seat only. Safegate looks fancy but is pretty much the same as safedock although never seen one.
No one likes the bars and tubes that I have come across. Both seat docking is better. As long as it gives left/right and distance to go indications I don't think many pilots really care too much what the docking system is.
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Can't beat a well positioned mirror for accuracy. They don't break down that often either.
Must cost a lot less than those fancy all singing/dancing contraptions that nag you to go left a bit.... right a bit.... SLOW DOWN!.... STOP!....TO FAR!
What a brilliant design...I do'nt think.
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Safedock OFF on arrival... stay put!
Just thought I'd mention that if you pull too far onto the stand without the system being active (let's say if your ground crew have not yet arrived to switch it on...) then you may inadvertantly stop the system working when they do arrive.
Que further delay waiting for a Marshaller...
I'm only a spectator to this as an Ops person, and I know you are under ATC pressure to clear taxiways etc. but if you're stuck half on the stand waiting even longer for a marshaller, chances are nobody can get behind you anyway I guess?
If the situation allows I'd say it's better to stay put and get on to your handling agent who will most likely say, 'they're on their way...'
Not sure if this is common knowledge at the pointy end but I do see it happen quite frequently. For a short(er) delay, wait for the safedock.
I appreciate the ideal would be the staff there waiting in the first place, but it's not a perfect world!
Que further delay waiting for a Marshaller...
I'm only a spectator to this as an Ops person, and I know you are under ATC pressure to clear taxiways etc. but if you're stuck half on the stand waiting even longer for a marshaller, chances are nobody can get behind you anyway I guess?
If the situation allows I'd say it's better to stay put and get on to your handling agent who will most likely say, 'they're on their way...'
Not sure if this is common knowledge at the pointy end but I do see it happen quite frequently. For a short(er) delay, wait for the safedock.
I appreciate the ideal would be the staff there waiting in the first place, but it's not a perfect world!
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Provision of VDGS and A-VDGS is governed by ICAO Annex 14 Volume 1.
Safegate is widely used in the UK with FMT's APIS and APIS ++ second. To the best of my knowledge there are no ADB (previously Siemens) systems in the UK. A pity, in my opinion, as they use a camera system to visually detect the a/c profile - a good secondary benefit is you get a stand surveillance monitor for 'free'.
The requirement is for both seats to be able to see and interpret the guidance which is why Mirrors and PAPA boards fail. (PAPA boards also require too greater angle between lateral guidance and stopping distance.
I'm not beholden to any manufacturer, but ask yourself why one supplier is getting so many orders? It might just be it's the best.
Sir George Cayleu
Safegate is widely used in the UK with FMT's APIS and APIS ++ second. To the best of my knowledge there are no ADB (previously Siemens) systems in the UK. A pity, in my opinion, as they use a camera system to visually detect the a/c profile - a good secondary benefit is you get a stand surveillance monitor for 'free'.
The requirement is for both seats to be able to see and interpret the guidance which is why Mirrors and PAPA boards fail. (PAPA boards also require too greater angle between lateral guidance and stopping distance.
I'm not beholden to any manufacturer, but ask yourself why one supplier is getting so many orders? It might just be it's the best.
Sir George Cayleu
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VDGS
As of 2012 all VDGS ( Stand Entry Guidance) have to be available to both flight crew.
As a comparison at EGLL all the market leaders were installed as a trial on the old stand 215 with a view of supplying Terminal 5. Safedock came out best even though we had Papa, Mirror, Stop Arrows and FMT APIS already at Heathrow. Seimens etc did not seem to be reliable and were fairly new so there was some sceptism whether they could deliver.
As a result of ICAO that takes papa, mirror and stop arrows out of the equation. Even though a good old mirror or a bit of paint were damm cheap. A BAA requirement normally !!!!!
Safedock is more user friendly from a set up point of view and a investigation point of view as you can interrogate the system straight away without having do download log files onto a laptop as with APIS.
APIS have actually bought out a APIS ++ Add on which bolts on the side of an APIS so it gives the First Officer a facility to a park. This is being used as a trial on stand 334.
Regarding entering a stand without any SEG or marshaller this is an absolute NO NO. Any aircraft should wait in the taxiway. an illuminated SEG means the stand is clear. If you were to enter a stand and hit something ( which has happened) I think you will be looking for a new job.
If you do enter and stop half way down yes the SEG may not illuminate. It varies from stand to stand.
As a comparison at EGLL all the market leaders were installed as a trial on the old stand 215 with a view of supplying Terminal 5. Safedock came out best even though we had Papa, Mirror, Stop Arrows and FMT APIS already at Heathrow. Seimens etc did not seem to be reliable and were fairly new so there was some sceptism whether they could deliver.
As a result of ICAO that takes papa, mirror and stop arrows out of the equation. Even though a good old mirror or a bit of paint were damm cheap. A BAA requirement normally !!!!!
Safedock is more user friendly from a set up point of view and a investigation point of view as you can interrogate the system straight away without having do download log files onto a laptop as with APIS.
APIS have actually bought out a APIS ++ Add on which bolts on the side of an APIS so it gives the First Officer a facility to a park. This is being used as a trial on stand 334.
Regarding entering a stand without any SEG or marshaller this is an absolute NO NO. Any aircraft should wait in the taxiway. an illuminated SEG means the stand is clear. If you were to enter a stand and hit something ( which has happened) I think you will be looking for a new job.
If you do enter and stop half way down yes the SEG may not illuminate. It varies from stand to stand.
