747 pilot (parts 1 & 2)
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Thanks, sorry if I sound so dumb, Im am going to be a pilot and need to know everything. I know I said this a lot but no hours on a 747 and every require 500, do they let you off if the interview is good and other things are good? Can please you give me advice on getting a job on the 747? I mean my dream is dedicated to the 747 and my goal is to achieve it.
Coming back to seniority thing if I work for one airline for 10 years and I get a new job on a different airline does that mean my seniority drops? I will work as hard as possible.
Coming back to seniority thing if I work for one airline for 10 years and I get a new job on a different airline does that mean my seniority drops? I will work as hard as possible.
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To be totally blunt, chances are you will never fly a 747. Not saying it wont happen but I expect it wont. I work for a company that flies 747s and it is not seniority based to bid on a type but chances are I will never fly one. In all honesty you will probably never fly an airliner unless you pay to do it. How old are you? I hope you are still in your teens.
If you want to be a pilot read the wanabees section of this forum, talk to flight schools, actually learn something about the career rather than just asking how you can be a 747 pilot as the answer to that is as above, become a pilot, get a job, maybe in 10 years you will get to fly one, unlikely but possible.
You seem to be ignoring everything people post, they have said how to get a job on a 747 but you ask again for advice on how to be a 747 pilot. What do you want to hear? Yes get a license apply for a job with a 747 operator and if you do really well and work hard they will let you fly one. OK said it, do well in an interview and you can fly a 747, probably next year with 250 hours total flight time but only if you do well in the interview.
It is not as easy as getting your license and then apply for a job as a 747 pilot. It takes a lot of commitment and money to even just get a license, getting a job is luck, being the right person and asking the right company. The ONLY way you can be a 747 pilot right out of flight school is if a company sponsors you, cathay pacific do that, 25,000+ applicants for 100 spaces and then you MAY get to fly a 747 as a cruise relief pilot. You then MAY get to fly one as a first officer after being with the company for about 7 years.
If you want to be a pilot go for it. If you want to be a 747 pilot ONLY, give up now and don't wast your time and money. I will give you US$1000 the first time you land a 747. Honestly not joking, I am that sure it wont happen.
Has to be a troll. If you are already a 747 pilot the deal is off :-)
If you want to be a pilot read the wanabees section of this forum, talk to flight schools, actually learn something about the career rather than just asking how you can be a 747 pilot as the answer to that is as above, become a pilot, get a job, maybe in 10 years you will get to fly one, unlikely but possible.
You seem to be ignoring everything people post, they have said how to get a job on a 747 but you ask again for advice on how to be a 747 pilot. What do you want to hear? Yes get a license apply for a job with a 747 operator and if you do really well and work hard they will let you fly one. OK said it, do well in an interview and you can fly a 747, probably next year with 250 hours total flight time but only if you do well in the interview.
It is not as easy as getting your license and then apply for a job as a 747 pilot. It takes a lot of commitment and money to even just get a license, getting a job is luck, being the right person and asking the right company. The ONLY way you can be a 747 pilot right out of flight school is if a company sponsors you, cathay pacific do that, 25,000+ applicants for 100 spaces and then you MAY get to fly a 747 as a cruise relief pilot. You then MAY get to fly one as a first officer after being with the company for about 7 years.
If you want to be a pilot go for it. If you want to be a 747 pilot ONLY, give up now and don't wast your time and money. I will give you US$1000 the first time you land a 747. Honestly not joking, I am that sure it wont happen.
Has to be a troll. If you are already a 747 pilot the deal is off :-)
Last edited by SloppyJoe; 12th Nov 2010 at 07:56.
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I started flying the 747 as a F/O at 27. I flew them for 32 years until I retired at age 59. When I was an instructor, the youngest pilot that I trained on the 747 was 22.
Dave
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Probably time to delete this troll, either that or English comprehension isn`t his strongest point....which isn`t a good thing if he is on the flight deck of an intercontinental jetliner.
Iain
Probably time to delete this troll, either that or English comprehension isn`t his strongest point....which isn`t a good thing if he is on the flight deck of an intercontinental jetliner.
Iain
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747 forever
By asking the same question time and time again won't change the answer everyone is giving you.
Get your licence .... get a job .... get the hours on a smaller aircraft and learn your trade .... apply for a transfer/apply for a job with different company recruiting for 747 co-pilots.
Stop asking the same question or you will seriously p1ss people off who are giving you good advice - there is NO shortcut to this (unless you have unlimited funds to buy your own aircraft).
By asking the same question time and time again won't change the answer everyone is giving you.
Get your licence .... get a job .... get the hours on a smaller aircraft and learn your trade .... apply for a transfer/apply for a job with different company recruiting for 747 co-pilots.
Stop asking the same question or you will seriously p1ss people off who are giving you good advice - there is NO shortcut to this (unless you have unlimited funds to buy your own aircraft).
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747 Pilot (Part Deux)
747 Forever's thread was closed. Not to step on the moderator who closed the thread, but I did have a lengthy, non-controversial reply to add to that thread before it was closed, directed to the author of that thread. With that in mind, insofar as the moderators will allow...
747 Forever,
Don't be discouraged in your goals; goals ARE achievable. Don't underestimate what it may take to achieve them, however.
Seniority literally means "this is how long I've been with this company." If you quit a job with one airline and go to another, you start all over, so far as seniority goes.
Seniority simply means that the people who have been there the longest get first choice at bidding on jobs, flying assignments, etc. The people who have been at the company the longest have the first choice when a vacancy comes up in an airplane. The most desirable assignments are said to be "very senior," meaning that generally only very senior people can get them. For example, newer airplanes such as the 777 tend to be more senior, vs. say, a DC9. The pay rates for the 777 will be higher, the routes often more desirable, and the schedules may be better. If that's the case, generally the more senior pilots will get it.
If you're flying for a company that has hundreds or thousands of pilots and you're at the bottom of the seniority list, then you're generally unable to get what you want until nobody else wants it.
If you're at a legacy carrier, which is to say a major airline, the larger, wide-body airplanes tend to be fairly senior. This isn't always the case, but often so. You also have to bear in mind that seniority is calculated several ways. There's the general seniority within the company, which takes precedence. There's also bidding seniority within a particular type of aircraft...people flying the 727, for example, compete with other people in the same company flying the 727 when it comes to bidding for the monthly lines of flying in the 727. If they're bidding for a vacancy for a 747 job in the company, they're bidding against anybody else in the company...including the most senior person to apply for that job.
Seniority, then, is figured by not only how long one has been with the company since one's date of hire, but also seniority is calculated as captain or first officer or flight engineer in the type of aircraft that one is flying. One may fly a "junior" airplane, for example (one that isn't popular or doesn't pay so well) and be very senior on that type of airplane...but be very junior in the company. If one is flying a DC9 (again, not to pick on the DC9), one might have be the most senior first officer on the DC9...but still be fairly low on the company overall seniority list. This means that while one could get any flying assignnment one desires on the DC9, one might have no luck at all bidding on the 747.
I think pretty much all of us who have responded to you fly, or have flown the 747.
That would really depend on the company. While it's true of our -400's, in the Classic we have no trouble getting ample landings and approaches. I just timed-out, meaning I've flown enough in the past 30 days that I'm benched for the moment. During that time, I had ten landings or so, each with an approach.
This does bring up another point; when the original poster talks about the 747, there's more than one kind. The best opportunity to fly a 747, especially without a strong background, is probably going directly to a freight operator. With that in mind, however, most of the new-hires that we're presently seeing in the 747 have around 15,000 to 20,000 hours, with significant wide-body international experience. There are enough furloughed individuals or pilots looking for work, with plenty of experinece, that competitive minimums for our pilot positions are very high. As new-hires could be hired into either the -400 or the Classic, there's no significant difference in background between who goes to which airplane, with our firm; everybody tends to be fairly experienced.
We also only fly the 747...we don't operate other types of airplanes. This means that if one hires on with our company, chances are not only excellent, but absolutely certain of going into a 747...because that's the only choice. Several operators are in the same position.
Some operators use the 747 largely for cargo. Someone mentioned Cathay. Cathay cargo airplanes tend to be a little more junior, I believe, and they do have a cadet program for very low time aviators. Someone more familiar with the particulars may be able to give the original poster a better idea of how one transitions into employment with Cathay, but I think the most significant issue for 747Forever will be that such programs tend to be very, very selective, and very, very difficult to enter. There are very few positions available, and despite very high numbers of applicants, obviously very few people get awarded those positions.
Simulator time doesn't really count for anything, other than a realistic training device. Simulator time in your logbook is generally discounted or ignored, and won't help you get a job.
When you read about jobs which state "500 hours in type," the job is referring to a bare minimum qualification of 500 hours of line flying in that type of aircraft. Bear in mind that hiring minimums are rarely realistic. When a company says a pilot needs a thousand hours with a few hundred on type, for example, that doesn't mean that the company is hiring pilots with such low qualifications. What is significant is the competitive minimum. This means the minimum amount of experience that you'll need in order to effectively compete with other pilots who are applying for the job.
I forget what our company minimums are; they're in the order of four or five thousand hours, I think. The competitive minimums, however...the minimum flight time you'll need in order to be considered over the many very qualified pilots who are applying or jobs right now, however, is very different. As I said before, to be competitive you'd need between fifteen and twenty thousand hours, with considerable 747 time, international, heavy, wide-body experience, and a solid flying background. A lot of highly qualified pilots are out there who are desirable prospective employees, and they'll easily be chosen over a pilot with no flight time or relevant experience.
Another issue you'll face when seeking a job is that many jobs won't consider you without internal recommendations. This means that you need a pilot already flying for the company to write a letter of recommendation for you, and generally it's expected that this pilot knows you well, and will have flown with you at some point (in order to vouch for your character and ability).
747Forever, it's very hard to take you seriously when you make a statement like this early in the thread, then ask questions later in the thread that show that you don't understand seniority at all. Do you understand this?
Your comments to some posters here suggest that you only will hear what you want to hear. If you want honest, helpful answers, you may wish to be a little less all-knowing, a little more humble, and you might try listening a little more. You're the one asking in the first place. Remember?
747 Forever,
Don't be discouraged in your goals; goals ARE achievable. Don't underestimate what it may take to achieve them, however.
Coming back to seniority thing if I work for one airline for 10 years and I get a new job on a different airline does that mean my seniority drops?
Seniority simply means that the people who have been there the longest get first choice at bidding on jobs, flying assignments, etc. The people who have been at the company the longest have the first choice when a vacancy comes up in an airplane. The most desirable assignments are said to be "very senior," meaning that generally only very senior people can get them. For example, newer airplanes such as the 777 tend to be more senior, vs. say, a DC9. The pay rates for the 777 will be higher, the routes often more desirable, and the schedules may be better. If that's the case, generally the more senior pilots will get it.
If you're flying for a company that has hundreds or thousands of pilots and you're at the bottom of the seniority list, then you're generally unable to get what you want until nobody else wants it.
If you're at a legacy carrier, which is to say a major airline, the larger, wide-body airplanes tend to be fairly senior. This isn't always the case, but often so. You also have to bear in mind that seniority is calculated several ways. There's the general seniority within the company, which takes precedence. There's also bidding seniority within a particular type of aircraft...people flying the 727, for example, compete with other people in the same company flying the 727 when it comes to bidding for the monthly lines of flying in the 727. If they're bidding for a vacancy for a 747 job in the company, they're bidding against anybody else in the company...including the most senior person to apply for that job.
Seniority, then, is figured by not only how long one has been with the company since one's date of hire, but also seniority is calculated as captain or first officer or flight engineer in the type of aircraft that one is flying. One may fly a "junior" airplane, for example (one that isn't popular or doesn't pay so well) and be very senior on that type of airplane...but be very junior in the company. If one is flying a DC9 (again, not to pick on the DC9), one might have be the most senior first officer on the DC9...but still be fairly low on the company overall seniority list. This means that while one could get any flying assignnment one desires on the DC9, one might have no luck at all bidding on the 747.
Do any one here know or is a 747 pilot here?
In airline flying, the 747 guys only get a few landings per month, some carriers have to send the IROs to the simulator to get landing currency!
This does bring up another point; when the original poster talks about the 747, there's more than one kind. The best opportunity to fly a 747, especially without a strong background, is probably going directly to a freight operator. With that in mind, however, most of the new-hires that we're presently seeing in the 747 have around 15,000 to 20,000 hours, with significant wide-body international experience. There are enough furloughed individuals or pilots looking for work, with plenty of experinece, that competitive minimums for our pilot positions are very high. As new-hires could be hired into either the -400 or the Classic, there's no significant difference in background between who goes to which airplane, with our firm; everybody tends to be fairly experienced.
We also only fly the 747...we don't operate other types of airplanes. This means that if one hires on with our company, chances are not only excellent, but absolutely certain of going into a 747...because that's the only choice. Several operators are in the same position.
Some operators use the 747 largely for cargo. Someone mentioned Cathay. Cathay cargo airplanes tend to be a little more junior, I believe, and they do have a cadet program for very low time aviators. Someone more familiar with the particulars may be able to give the original poster a better idea of how one transitions into employment with Cathay, but I think the most significant issue for 747Forever will be that such programs tend to be very, very selective, and very, very difficult to enter. There are very few positions available, and despite very high numbers of applicants, obviously very few people get awarded those positions.
Sim does not count!? I checked all 747 job offers and it says 500 hours on type. How do I get a job on it that does require zero real non simulator hours on type?
When you read about jobs which state "500 hours in type," the job is referring to a bare minimum qualification of 500 hours of line flying in that type of aircraft. Bear in mind that hiring minimums are rarely realistic. When a company says a pilot needs a thousand hours with a few hundred on type, for example, that doesn't mean that the company is hiring pilots with such low qualifications. What is significant is the competitive minimum. This means the minimum amount of experience that you'll need in order to effectively compete with other pilots who are applying for the job.
I forget what our company minimums are; they're in the order of four or five thousand hours, I think. The competitive minimums, however...the minimum flight time you'll need in order to be considered over the many very qualified pilots who are applying or jobs right now, however, is very different. As I said before, to be competitive you'd need between fifteen and twenty thousand hours, with considerable 747 time, international, heavy, wide-body experience, and a solid flying background. A lot of highly qualified pilots are out there who are desirable prospective employees, and they'll easily be chosen over a pilot with no flight time or relevant experience.
Another issue you'll face when seeking a job is that many jobs won't consider you without internal recommendations. This means that you need a pilot already flying for the company to write a letter of recommendation for you, and generally it's expected that this pilot knows you well, and will have flown with you at some point (in order to vouch for your character and ability).
Plus I know about the seniority, so no need to tell me about it.
Your comments to some posters here suggest that you only will hear what you want to hear. If you want honest, helpful answers, you may wish to be a little less all-knowing, a little more humble, and you might try listening a little more. You're the one asking in the first place. Remember?
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The above thread is all about the cathay pacific cadet pilot scheme. I believe it is the ONLY way you can fly a 747 with very little experience anywhere in the world, if you have to fly a 747 as soon as you get a license, this is it, the only way you can do it. As a cruise relief pilot initially but after 4 years doing that I think you will be more than happy to jump into the right seat of a 777 for a while. Can go back onto the 747 a few years later, its just they don't have enough sectors to train junior FOs on it. Unlike a lot of other airlines pay is the same regardless of type and the 777 roster is just as good as the 747 one.
The above thread is all about the cathay pacific cadet pilot scheme. I believe it is the ONLY way you can fly a 747 with very little experience anywhere in the world, if you have to fly a 747 as soon as you get a license, this is it, the only way you can do it. As a cruise relief pilot initially but after 4 years doing that I think you will be more than happy to jump into the right seat of a 777 for a while. Can go back onto the 747 a few years later, its just they don't have enough sectors to train junior FOs on it. Unlike a lot of other airlines pay is the same regardless of type and the 777 roster is just as good as the 747 one.
