Airbus Type Groupings
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Airbus Type Groupings
As a member of cabin crew, I am currently checked out on the A318/319/320/321, 737 and the 777. When working at a previous airline, I worked on the 737, 757 and 767. That was my limit as they were all considered as different types. Yet, the Airbus A318 right up to the A321, is considered one type, hence the fact I can be checked on them all, plus the two Boeings.
Bearing in mind that the difference in size between a 737 and a 757 is similiar to that between the A318 and A321, I am curious as to why this is. I'm assuming that this is a CAA thing and not an airline issue.
Thanks
Jsl
Bearing in mind that the difference in size between a 737 and a 757 is similiar to that between the A318 and A321, I am curious as to why this is. I'm assuming that this is a CAA thing and not an airline issue.
Thanks
Jsl
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It's the same for us pilots. If we're type rated on the 320, we're automatically rated on the 318/19/20 & 21. I suspect the CAA do this because in terms of equipment and operational philosphy, they're all so damned similar. Certainly, stepping off the flight deck of a 319 and going onto a 321, you wouldn't notice the difference.Even the A330 is very similar, so I'm told, which is why one can do a quick CCQ (Cross Crew Qualification course) and become rated on the 318/19/20/21 & 30 simultaneously. The only massive differences among the 318-321, as you'll know, are the size and cabin layouts. The 318's a little fella, the 321 is comparable to the 757 in terms of size. I guess the only real differences as cabin crew that you need to understand for the Airbus aircraft is the layout of the cabins, as they differ in size/configuration etc. and the whereabouts of the various equipment - once you know where it is from a/c to a/c, you'll know how to use it, 'cos they're such similar aircraft.
The Boeings are all rather different - in terms of equipment and operation philosophy, I would have thought that the 737 and 757 are very different. Certainly the flight decks and equipment thereof are very different - meaning that type ratings for pilots on 737 and 757 are kept separate.
1234
The Boeings are all rather different - in terms of equipment and operation philosophy, I would have thought that the 737 and 757 are very different. Certainly the flight decks and equipment thereof are very different - meaning that type ratings for pilots on 737 and 757 are kept separate.
1234
CJ
What you say about pilot ratings is true. Some years ago I worked in a JAR-OPS 1 group developing the criteria for concurrent pilot qualification on more than one type. The question soon arose, "What is a type", and the answer was rather lengthy, and the answer started with "It depends who you are".
Some of the variations:
Type certification (i.e airworthiness)
Pilot type rating
Cabin crew type approval.
The cabin crew approval hinged mainly on the emergency procedures applicable to individual crew stations, so some oddities appeared. For example, the 757s that I flew at the time were mainly 4 doors per side, but we also had a leased-in 3-door example - and for cabin crew that was a different "type" because the emergency procedures differed.
This was an operation under the UK CAA and JAR-OPS 1, and my recollection is that cabin crew could be approved for a maximum of 3 defined "types", which could be, say, 2 varieties of 757 and either 767-200 or 767-300. But, for the pilots, all B757 and B767 were on the same type rating, with only differences training required between the sub-variants.
Back to the first post: either the CAA rules have changed since I was involved some years ago, or the operator has managed to standardise the CC procedures across the various types shown.
What you say about pilot ratings is true. Some years ago I worked in a JAR-OPS 1 group developing the criteria for concurrent pilot qualification on more than one type. The question soon arose, "What is a type", and the answer was rather lengthy, and the answer started with "It depends who you are".
Some of the variations:
Type certification (i.e airworthiness)
Pilot type rating
Cabin crew type approval.
The cabin crew approval hinged mainly on the emergency procedures applicable to individual crew stations, so some oddities appeared. For example, the 757s that I flew at the time were mainly 4 doors per side, but we also had a leased-in 3-door example - and for cabin crew that was a different "type" because the emergency procedures differed.
This was an operation under the UK CAA and JAR-OPS 1, and my recollection is that cabin crew could be approved for a maximum of 3 defined "types", which could be, say, 2 varieties of 757 and either 767-200 or 767-300. But, for the pilots, all B757 and B767 were on the same type rating, with only differences training required between the sub-variants.
Back to the first post: either the CAA rules have changed since I was involved some years ago, or the operator has managed to standardise the CC procedures across the various types shown.
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Ahh, thank you. That makes sense, especially when considering the door operations of the various types. Sorry. I should have been able to work that out for myself! 
kenparry
It hasn't changed. You are still limited to three types, which was why I was curious. Unfortunately, I was thinking in terms of size and number of doors, rather than how they all actually worked. I have to say, regardless of whether the airbus doors have the same handle or not, it makes SEP a complete nightmare, especially as I've never actually flown on the 320 and 321. We don't even have either aircraft at our base, but have to cover them anyway just in case we borrow any from up the road. Picture the scene....
"Where does the number 7 sit on the A321?"
"I don't know! On the number 7's jumpseat?"
Jsl
P.S. For the record, I do currently know, having just completed this years SEP!
kenparry
It hasn't changed. You are still limited to three types, which was why I was curious. Unfortunately, I was thinking in terms of size and number of doors, rather than how they all actually worked. I have to say, regardless of whether the airbus doors have the same handle or not, it makes SEP a complete nightmare, especially as I've never actually flown on the 320 and 321. We don't even have either aircraft at our base, but have to cover them anyway just in case we borrow any from up the road. Picture the scene....
"Where does the number 7 sit on the A321?"
"I don't know! On the number 7's jumpseat?"
Jsl
P.S. For the record, I do currently know, having just completed this years SEP!
Last edited by jetset lady; 19th Dec 2009 at 12:08.
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Intriguing Ken, that for pilots the 757/67 was the same rating, but not for cabin crew.
That's what I love about flying the 'bus - it's generic nature. Something that boeing has yet to embrace.
1234
That's what I love about flying the 'bus - it's generic nature. Something that boeing has yet to embrace.
1234
CJ:
Yes, the 757/767 started as different pilot type ratings (I'm talking about under the UK CAA) but even then we were allowed to be "dual rated" on both, with some detailed requirements on checks and recency. After a few years, it became a common type rating, and some of the check requirements were dropped. (I think the FAA gave a common type rating from the start, but I'm not certain). There are significant system differences between them (much more than between A320 & 330), but the cockpit layout and most of the operating procedures are pretty much the same, so it's not a big deal to fly both.
For the CC, the differences are greater - doors & exits entirely different, for example, needing different emergency procedures. Hence they are, for CC, different types.
Yes, the 757/767 started as different pilot type ratings (I'm talking about under the UK CAA) but even then we were allowed to be "dual rated" on both, with some detailed requirements on checks and recency. After a few years, it became a common type rating, and some of the check requirements were dropped. (I think the FAA gave a common type rating from the start, but I'm not certain). There are significant system differences between them (much more than between A320 & 330), but the cockpit layout and most of the operating procedures are pretty much the same, so it's not a big deal to fly both.
For the CC, the differences are greater - doors & exits entirely different, for example, needing different emergency procedures. Hence they are, for CC, different types.
