When will the UK's CAA close?
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Anyone who thinks an EU regulator such as EASA will be better than the UK regulator should lie down in a darkened room until the thought goes away. A bureaucrat is a bureaucrat is a bureaucrat whichever country he comes from, but, in my experience British bureaucrats are more flexible than their EU counterparts as long as they are applying UK law and not EU law.
As for costs, the EU accounts have not been signed off by the auditors for 15 years. Would you rather pay your money to the crooks in Brussels or the crooks in London. At least in London we have a chance to remove them. In the EU there is no will to reign in corrupt politicians. Corrupt practices seem to be accepted as part of the job.
As for their decision making expertise, only EU bureaucrats would think that throwing thousands of tons of dead fish back into the sea would solve the problem of overfishing. These people are mad. And these are the people to whom you wish to grant oversight for aviation in the UK?
There are issues on which we can co-operate on an international level and for that we need national agencies such as the CAA. What we should avoid is handing over national legislation to an international body over which we have no control and only marginal influence.
When Britain finally tears itself free from the EU we shall still need the CAA.
I do not work for the CAA and know no-one who does. But an Easa office in Gatwick would be a lot worse than a CAA office in Gatwick.
As for costs, the EU accounts have not been signed off by the auditors for 15 years. Would you rather pay your money to the crooks in Brussels or the crooks in London. At least in London we have a chance to remove them. In the EU there is no will to reign in corrupt politicians. Corrupt practices seem to be accepted as part of the job.
As for their decision making expertise, only EU bureaucrats would think that throwing thousands of tons of dead fish back into the sea would solve the problem of overfishing. These people are mad. And these are the people to whom you wish to grant oversight for aviation in the UK?
There are issues on which we can co-operate on an international level and for that we need national agencies such as the CAA. What we should avoid is handing over national legislation to an international body over which we have no control and only marginal influence.
When Britain finally tears itself free from the EU we shall still need the CAA.
I do not work for the CAA and know no-one who does. But an Easa office in Gatwick would be a lot worse than a CAA office in Gatwick.
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The Gravy Train
The issue here follows Great Britain PLC to the letter. The whole thing is a gravy train, with a diminishing ,working, profit making population that can fund it. A very large number of these quangos, spend the majority of their time making up rules/regs/taxes, that ultimately they utilise to argue their own existance. The whole escapade is bon
kers.
kers.
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The problem is that many people are not very objective about the CAA, as you can see from the pure vitreol in this thread.
And who can blame them? For the early part of their career, for most Pilots the CAA is the enemy. It takes your money, makes you jump through lots of hoops and can fail you. Its really not surprising that by the end of the licensing process many freshly minted pilots have an almost Pathological hatred of anything to do with the CAA.
I was one of them. It took years - literally - before I could drive past the belgrano without sticking one finger out of the window.
But I did grow up eventually. Over more recent years I've had the need to liase with the CAA in various capacities. Are they perfect? No of course not, but there's some pretty good people working for them and you can get an excellent service in many areas.
Trouble is, many folks don't need to have anything to do with the CAA once they get past license issue, so their original mindset becomes cemented in place. My advice? Get over it.
pb
And who can blame them? For the early part of their career, for most Pilots the CAA is the enemy. It takes your money, makes you jump through lots of hoops and can fail you. Its really not surprising that by the end of the licensing process many freshly minted pilots have an almost Pathological hatred of anything to do with the CAA.
I was one of them. It took years - literally - before I could drive past the belgrano without sticking one finger out of the window.
But I did grow up eventually. Over more recent years I've had the need to liase with the CAA in various capacities. Are they perfect? No of course not, but there's some pretty good people working for them and you can get an excellent service in many areas.
Trouble is, many folks don't need to have anything to do with the CAA once they get past license issue, so their original mindset becomes cemented in place. My advice? Get over it.
pb
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I think it should be compulsory for everyone employed in the Belgrano to visit the Isle Of Man Department of Trade and Industry, and then be forced to sit, watch, listen and learn just how the job should be done!
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Adulthood
pb - I thought actually I had grown up, until however, I recently complained to the CAA re some very poor safety related issues with an operator and airfield. Actually, I generally am not the 'complaining' type. I got nowhere - in fact I was astonished at their response, the square root of zero. 
A few letters to fob me off basically.
I then thought of the financial levies we have paid, the poor buggers taken to court re airspace busts, the audits, the apparent non acknowledgement of GA related issues, the airfield closures etc etc.
I find it difficult to 'get over it'.
A few letters to fob me off basically.I then thought of the financial levies we have paid, the poor buggers taken to court re airspace busts, the audits, the apparent non acknowledgement of GA related issues, the airfield closures etc etc.
I find it difficult to 'get over it'.
Well, I have 52 years of experience of the CAA (and it's predecessors).
If any of you out there think that having EASA or any other organisation squatting in the Belgrano is going to be wonderful then you are sadly deluded.
Much as the CAA have driven me to distraction at times in the past, they actually can be quite helpful on occasion and they are certainly much more preferable to work with than some of the authorities that I have had to deal with in other parts of the EU.
If any of you out there think that having EASA or any other organisation squatting in the Belgrano is going to be wonderful then you are sadly deluded.
Much as the CAA have driven me to distraction at times in the past, they actually can be quite helpful on occasion and they are certainly much more preferable to work with than some of the authorities that I have had to deal with in other parts of the EU.
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Clivewatson
I agree
Should be compulsory including bringing back some luvverly fish
One point though, the Director General, the Head of Registrations and the Head of Airworthiness all are previous employees of..........................
wait for it.......................................................... .......
Some of you will have already guessed
The CAA Gatwick Office
Sir George Cayley
I agree
Should be compulsory including bringing back some luvverly fishOne point though, the Director General, the Head of Registrations and the Head of Airworthiness all are previous employees of..........................
wait for it.......................................................... .......
Some of you will have already guessed
The CAA Gatwick Office
Sir George Cayley
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Some fascinating comments on this thread. I don't know what rattled Carrier's cage but, having seen what EASA does and how it does it, I can't say I'm impressed. But I do understand the legal background (from a layman's perspective) that resulted in EASA and why the UK still has a CAA - I urge Carrier and anyone else to look into it before spouting ill-informed opinion.
PS - The CAA is like many other organisations, it has some really good people and it has some rather poor people. If you have to work with them the secret it to remember the good ones and cultivate a good relationship with them (whilst trying to avoid the duff ones). What is rather disappointing is that some of the duff ones seem to get to positions of authority whilst the good 'uns get overlooked.
PS - The CAA is like many other organisations, it has some really good people and it has some rather poor people. If you have to work with them the secret it to remember the good ones and cultivate a good relationship with them (whilst trying to avoid the duff ones). What is rather disappointing is that some of the duff ones seem to get to positions of authority whilst the good 'uns get overlooked.
I believe Fitter has hit the nail on the head.
When I went to one of the early EASA workshops in Cologne, the only question the UK CAA representative asked of EASA was what is the pan-European agency going to do to prevent regulatory shopping?
EASA's answer was nothing - it is outside of their remit, the CAA rep was told.
Given the 'de facto' reason for training in the UK will vanish come April 2012, when all European FTOs will be teaching the same licences, I can see little jutification for wannabe commercial pilots choosing to train in the UK.
Add to that the regulatory shopping that will undoubtedly ensue as FTOs, TRTOs and even airlines decamp to EU countries with cheaper regulatory oversight, and I can see the Belgrano fast turning into the Mary Celeste.
When I went to one of the early EASA workshops in Cologne, the only question the UK CAA representative asked of EASA was what is the pan-European agency going to do to prevent regulatory shopping?
EASA's answer was nothing - it is outside of their remit, the CAA rep was told.
Given the 'de facto' reason for training in the UK will vanish come April 2012, when all European FTOs will be teaching the same licences, I can see little jutification for wannabe commercial pilots choosing to train in the UK.
Add to that the regulatory shopping that will undoubtedly ensue as FTOs, TRTOs and even airlines decamp to EU countries with cheaper regulatory oversight, and I can see the Belgrano fast turning into the Mary Celeste.
