Subpart Q FDP Question
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Subpart Q FDP Question
Hello all !
My company has recently implemented this Subpart Q Flight & Duty Limitations and I am reading it, but one part isn't registering in my small, squirel-sized brain.
Report time is 0530 and we finish duty at 1700, having completed 4 short sectors.
Regarding break on the ground ...
We have a rest of 5 hours on the ground after completing 2 flights. Then later on we do another 2 flights back to base.
It states that break on the ground shall be taken into account with 50%. If a break exceeds 4 hours (which mine does) it shall be taken into account with 0%.
Does this mean that our FDP isn't reduced at all with a break of 5 hours ? Or does it mean I should be wearing a pink dress and answering to the name Susan?
If anyone has experience with this Subpart Q I would be most grateful for the info as no one seems to understand it.
Cheers,
My company has recently implemented this Subpart Q Flight & Duty Limitations and I am reading it, but one part isn't registering in my small, squirel-sized brain.
Report time is 0530 and we finish duty at 1700, having completed 4 short sectors.
Regarding break on the ground ...
We have a rest of 5 hours on the ground after completing 2 flights. Then later on we do another 2 flights back to base.
It states that break on the ground shall be taken into account with 50%. If a break exceeds 4 hours (which mine does) it shall be taken into account with 0%.
Does this mean that our FDP isn't reduced at all with a break of 5 hours ? Or does it mean I should be wearing a pink dress and answering to the name Susan?
If anyone has experience with this Subpart Q I would be most grateful for the info as no one seems to understand it.
Cheers,
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This depends still on the country where you operate and on the OM-A chapter 7 of your operator.
Looking at bare basics:
Maximum FDP is 13:00 hrs.
you start at 05:30 which gives reduction of 29 minutes,
Maximum FDP is now 12:31
you do 4 sectors which gives reduction of 1:00 hr,
maximum FDP is now 11:31
Twice in 7 days 1:00 hr extension for up to 4 landings is possible
maximum FDP may be now 12:31, extra rest required.
Looking at the break you have to subtract 30 min and use the result in half.
In your case (5:00 hrs -30 min) / 2 = 4:30 hrs / 2 = 2:15 hrs
Without extension you can have a FDP total of 11:31 hrs + 2:15 hrs = 13:46 hrs
With a check-in at 05:30 you can happily continue until check-out at 19:16 without being fatigued at all. As I said....according to the basics.....
Looking at bare basics:
Maximum FDP is 13:00 hrs.
you start at 05:30 which gives reduction of 29 minutes,
Maximum FDP is now 12:31
you do 4 sectors which gives reduction of 1:00 hr,
maximum FDP is now 11:31
Twice in 7 days 1:00 hr extension for up to 4 landings is possible
maximum FDP may be now 12:31, extra rest required.
Looking at the break you have to subtract 30 min and use the result in half.
In your case (5:00 hrs -30 min) / 2 = 4:30 hrs / 2 = 2:15 hrs
Without extension you can have a FDP total of 11:31 hrs + 2:15 hrs = 13:46 hrs
With a check-in at 05:30 you can happily continue until check-out at 19:16 without being fatigued at all. As I said....according to the basics.....
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You really understand this!???
Heh Night-rider!
It looks as if you really understand this. So now regarding split duty, please.
Assume you check in at 1400 and fly until 2000. Then you have rest until 05.00.
(I have cunningly not got up to 10 hours, as that would be a "normal" minimum rest. Also, the rest period is in the normal night.)
So how many hours can you fly after checking back in???
I think it is 05.00 + the 9 hours rest = 14.00 latest check out.
But there is a nasty little sentence that the FDT must not exceed 20 hours. INCLUDING THE BREAK(!) This sentence has lead some to say, that after the above scenario, you may only fly until 10.00 in the morning, as that is 20 hours from first check in.
IF this is the correct interpretation, then what exactly is being "extended" when they talk about rest period extending FDT???
Also, is another crew checked in at 14.00, flew 10 hours, had 10 hours rest and then can fly at least ANOTHER 10 hours! there is only one hour difference in rest and many more in duty time......
This has been the subject of "interesting" discussions, using the German, Swiss and Danish rules from different operators, as they each have a slightly different wording, as you pointed out!
Glad this has all been harmonised and our nice "point" system in the nordic countries was sold out by our regulatory agencies!
Canīt wait to hear the answer......really!
Happy New Year ALL!!!!!!!!
It looks as if you really understand this. So now regarding split duty, please.
Assume you check in at 1400 and fly until 2000. Then you have rest until 05.00.
(I have cunningly not got up to 10 hours, as that would be a "normal" minimum rest. Also, the rest period is in the normal night.)
So how many hours can you fly after checking back in???
I think it is 05.00 + the 9 hours rest = 14.00 latest check out.
But there is a nasty little sentence that the FDT must not exceed 20 hours. INCLUDING THE BREAK(!) This sentence has lead some to say, that after the above scenario, you may only fly until 10.00 in the morning, as that is 20 hours from first check in.
IF this is the correct interpretation, then what exactly is being "extended" when they talk about rest period extending FDT???
Also, is another crew checked in at 14.00, flew 10 hours, had 10 hours rest and then can fly at least ANOTHER 10 hours! there is only one hour difference in rest and many more in duty time......
This has been the subject of "interesting" discussions, using the German, Swiss and Danish rules from different operators, as they each have a slightly different wording, as you pointed out!
Glad this has all been harmonised and our nice "point" system in the nordic countries was sold out by our regulatory agencies!
Canīt wait to hear the answer......really!
Happy New Year ALL!!!!!!!!
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It states that break on the ground shall be taken into account with 50%. If a break exceeds 4 hours (which mine does) it shall be taken into account with 0%.
Does this mean that our FDP isn't reduced at all with a break of 5 hours ? Or does it mean I should be wearing a pink dress and answering to the name Susan?
Does this mean that our FDP isn't reduced at all with a break of 5 hours ? Or does it mean I should be wearing a pink dress and answering to the name Susan?
The clue is that the length of the break is given prior to the start of the break -- where I work, we do have breaks all the time. However, we have to county 50% FD even for breaks up to 11:30 (shift is 12 hours and first 30 minutes is used for general planning). ONLY if the length of the break is given and exceeds 4 hours -- meaning you can turn off your phone and be totally disconnected from the world for 4 hours -- can you count 0% duty. Note -- COUNT 0%, not REDUCE 0% (as that would be counting 100%)
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ha ha! I had the same planning glitch and had some days off!
The number of landings varies... On the last rotation, we had 3 landings, first part of split (if it WAS actually split duty when the dust settles) was 9.5 hours, then we had 8 hours in the hotel, then 5 hours with two landings.
It will be interesting to hear your interpretation...then I will tell you the various viewpoints....
Going back MOnday....so one more day!
ciao!
The number of landings varies... On the last rotation, we had 3 landings, first part of split (if it WAS actually split duty when the dust settles) was 9.5 hours, then we had 8 hours in the hotel, then 5 hours with two landings.
It will be interesting to hear your interpretation...then I will tell you the various viewpoints....
Going back MOnday....so one more day!
ciao!
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It also says that the total Duty Period shall be rested. That means, in your case FerrypilotDK, that the rest period after that trip should be 22.5 hours, not just the FDP of 17.5.
